AnimeNfo

[Seven Of Four (#63088)]

[Thomas(akaTammo) (#57694)]

Well well well...

Are You done now?
Have You calmed down and ended the vain exclamations?

Than if You want to discuss then read what I wrote. Stop coming at me, come at my arguments. I'm not coming at You guys, Your life philosophy (whatever it is and whether You have it or not), Your way of life etc. I am not insulting You. So if You want to discuss, do it. If You want to bash me, stop it.
Read the Rules, see what a flaming is, ask for opinion other people who are praised on a forums as NICE, KIND, MATURE.
My suggestion would be Ken Hayashi, Lady Rin, RosePetals, Caddberry.

If You haven't cool off than talk to them. If that won't suffice, stop posting here. If You are so greatly angered 'dear patrons' by the sight of my arguments and Your inability to 'deal some damage' then jee! Stop PLEASE, before I will feel guilty for causing You heart attack or apoplexy! WTH? :shock:

Elfen Lied is ANIME. FICTIONAL STORY. It is not real people!!
If I don't care for anime than I am heartless? I have no care for the world? Oh come on!

That is a dispute about certain anime being shitty or being great. Don't come here if You cannot bear the sight of anime being called shitty. The topic warns You for just those occasions - You cannot see Your Most Beloved Example Of How Anime Should Be being criticized then don't go in here.
I thought that much was obvious, seems I was wrong.

Such discussion is waste of time indeed. I was taught that leaving someone without reply is impolite, thus I replied. My enthusiasm for it was killed long ago, when mature people with whom I started this discussion have left, after we exchanged our opinions and discussed them. Read how they discussed, and learn from it, it would only benefit You. They made valid points, raised several great observations, their arguments were considerate. You are examples of bad dancer who complains that he has tight shoes and that's the shoes fault, that she dances badly.

You not only do not read my post (that's understandable considering You dislike my opinions so much, however strange considering You are REPLYING to them) You also do not read Your own posts. Bravo.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


@ Cadd.

As I stated before - ecchiness in EL IS a matter of taste. However even if we leave aside the matter of 'there is too much of it' and 'no! there is too little of it' than one thing still remains. You agreed that it is not completed and thus leaves matters unresolved. If it is so, than let me tell You that if they would have cut out some panty shots they would have time for resolving those matters.
And as for completion of anime, nowadays it is a very good argument. However when EL was finished (13 episode I mean) some time has passed before the word about 14 episode got around. Thus it makes Your argument valid by coincidence, not on purpose - do You get what I mean here?

@ Joshua.

You are of course right, however You missed my intentions. No wonder with all that going around.

If You have seen PSME than You will probably catch what I mean here more quicker, If You did not, well, than if I'm being unclear than just say it.

Many anime are having backstories with plotholes. Those hole are sometimes dowright easy to spot, or sometimes they are very hard to find. When I rate a story in anime I rate it for itself. It's impact on enjoyment lands in enjoyment cathegory, so that is off. What remains is if I liked the idea, if it was interesting, curious, good, solid, funny... Of course also comes realization - and here the plot holes are lowering the score. Matters unresolved are also taken into consideration here, and how they are 'left out' is also important.

Now all that evolutionary discussion we were having was not really to create a better explanations on dicloniuses, or for me to understand how could dicloniuses exist. It was because I tried to show You why I rate story in EL so low. Story in EL has for me several factors that are making me rate it low. VERY LOW. I listed and rated them already earlier, so here I will just focus on a factor we were discussing recently.

I can name You other stories that are short, have matters unresolved, are not completed and are comparable to Elfen Lied as heaven to hell is.
They have plot holes often. However characters are so lively that You cannot help but to be drawn in. They are so REAL, ALIVE, that You have a feeling like they are having all those adventures IRL not in anime. And they also have lesser plot holes, cause such as EL has are... hmmm. I'm talking here about character issues.

Now, You have raised a very touchy issue... menacing voice I think I shall eat You alive here my friend...

Jokes aside. The moment You are referring to totally destroyed for me the scraps of hopes I had for EL to have at least one theme decently done. You see, from what there have been shown it is easy to conclude that Kouta forgave her with tremendous ease. He is portrayed throughout the whole series as the person who is nice because? Cause his family DIED IN AN ACCIDENT AND HE WAS RUDE TO HIS SISTER AND CANNOT FORGIVE HIMSELF. Then suddenly he remembers. He remembers it all. And he disregards it just like that saying 'I cannot forgive You' and HUGGING her!
There is no conflict at all! I expected it! I wanted to see the climax, how a nice person like Kouta shows some reality, like that he is hurt, that it was a tragedy for him that it ruined his life, there are reason for words which can hurt deeper than a sword. That was the situation for him to say those words aloud and then it was an occasion for them both to get on with it! That is how people argue, and they do it over much smaller things than murder. And what I got? Cheesy forgiveness. I would understood forgiveness if there would have been deeper relationship between them. Plot made this impossible, and thus it was unreal.
On two first pages of this debate we went through all the characters in detail. I went there and found a part on Kouta from Pantha's post, she wrote it in answering that Kouta was too young to be fully aware of the situation, still it does contain every important thing about Kouta and his decision and lack of reasons for it.

[Shikama (#66793)]

"And he disregards it just like that saying 'I cannot forgive You' and HUGGING her! "

I believe that's because he's been living with her for the past months and his memory is still faded - he remembers that she killed his parents but also remembers the nice Lucy before the killing and those memories sort of faded together. He's hit by the pain of loss, but it still hasn't all connected together just yet...

[Rosepetals (#42525)]

Tammo, very nice post I think everyone should take heed of his advice...I said it once before and I'll say it again (even though I'm very happy that this thread is still alive and kicking ), we do not flame others. What is flaming? Read the Rules and FAQ, or PM the mods, or simply ask, someone is bound to answer you. I'd be more than welcome to define it.

Tammo's added a lot to my view of EL, he's allowed me to see more reasons why EL isn't the perfect series, but he hasn't changed my general like for the anime. I suggest that those of you who like EL and are flaming Tammo for his opinion to cease and desist. He doesn't like EL, and he's utilizing a huge amount of bravery for telling everyone WHY he feels the way he does. Don't come into this argument trying to change his opinion; instead, try to make him see your opinion in a clearer light. I did the same in my earlier posts. For instance, I still don't agree with tammo in terms of the ecchiness factor on the whole---i think it's more artistic than blantant with shows like Kono Mini and Girls Bravo. I gave distinct reasons why and comparisons, while adding my own subjective and objective views. But Tammo doesn't flame me for feeling the way I do.

With that said, I'll continue to watch this debate from the sidelines, I may or may not engage depending on which way this argument turns.

[dirty (#71854)]

*grabs the hose* "Where is the fire?" :shock:

It is very very very very very interesting how things happen here. OK a person altercates their negative view on an issue. That is fair enough but reading their posts, they insinuate and stir the others presenting the view by adding subtle derogatory lines and put a "wink" to hide their crude remarks "I'll tear you apart here" "This is where i'll eat you alive" . Are those personal lines neccessary? Not really. Adding them involves the reader/writer makes it more personal than it already is.

I have absolutely no problem with posters who write like this since it affects me to none [perhaps living in Australia, sarcasm is rife, we are a highly insensitive lot ]. So when a person jokes I like to return this favour but then that person boils like water in a steam pot. All of a sudden everybody jumps in to say that flaming has started. Please let's look at this situation democratically. You hate something, share your view without the jokes because yes you are insulting people. Making yourself out to be the victim hmmmmmmmmmmm

I'm not prodding any fire here for that matter [my last post has 0 flames + 1 joke]. Somebody here feels victimised, did they bring it on themselves? Some instances no because they shared their countering view and people get defensive of their views. In some instances yes since they brought it on and that is how it should be seen. There are four roles of the reader, most importantly text critic where we look at the true motivations, positioning of the writer e.g. male replies mostly to females posts and sugarcoats their writing = real reason to grease on girls.

P.S. I think it goes deeper than just bravery ever heard of the fire fighter that deliberately lit the fires first? OK you don't get flamed, remember people adjust their writing just like their tones. Sure you've all heard a guy change their tone when speaking to a girl

Anyhow I am merely here trying to be equitable if not where was it not fair?

[Suigintou (#73373)]

I think the biggest question here is... Who really cares? Because at the end of the day, nobody's going to walk out of here with their opinions changed. =\

BTW - how many of you all actually read the manga? A lot of what's being discussed here IS resolved in the manga.

[Seven Of Four (#63088)]

[dirty (#71854)]

[Thomas(akaTammo) (#57694)]

@ Shikama

It is shown that he remembers how his family died and he remembers who did it.


@ Sugintou

A lot is resolved in manga You say....

Is there explained how Kouta ended up forgiving Lucy?
Bando is explained there? (HELL!! That would be reason enough to buy it! To SEE how they are explaining Bando!)
Kurama killling newborns just like that, even when his own wife labour comes so close?
Kouta accepting anybody in the house without NOTHING as a story to hear from them, even after police is looking for them or they atacked other locators just on sight?
Kouta lying to the police without ANY reason at all?
Kouta hiding Nyuu before the police and than giving her to prof. Kakegawa because he told him the same thing police did?
The fact that Lucy escapes from her confinement with so much ease while she should not?

There are other facts but let's stick to those for now.

If they are explained, please tell me how.

From what I have heard, manga has such motives like dropping a ballistic rocket on Lucy and her survivng the hit. :/


@ Joshua - Mayu's case is added to my previous post, however today I think it will be all. Other arguments You have will have to wait till tomorrow, ok?

[charn (#40191)]

[Thomas(akaTammo) (#57694)]

@ Sugintou - please answer about those explanation in manga, while I will take care of Charn's post about anime.


@ Charn - welcome back!! WARM WELCOME FOR YOU!!!!

/me starts to make fire even bigger and hotter /


Almost seriously - welcome Guilty One ... After all it's Your review which started this passionate debate in the first place was it not?
Thanks for the other issue BTW, once more.

Your arguments, one after another.

1. Hmmm.. he might love her. He paired up with Yuka, I think not without reason.
Also he loved his family. I expected those feelings to clash. No such thing. I expected some conflict because of that. No such thing. Simple forgiveness. He just remembers her killing spree and ... hugs her?! WTH?

2. Yes, I know. I would love to see how they are desperately trying and miserably failing. Such character is unexplainable.

3. Were they? He had time to realize they are not necessarily so evil as they are portrayed to be. And he never even thought about his own family! That is this 'smart, intelligent scientist'? Killing newborns is a decision I would consider at length. His decision was a matter of seconds.

4. Nyuu - naked on the beach. Sth is wrong (except for nudist beaches I did not expect to find naked chicks on the beach ). What does normal person do? (S)He makes some calls. First - to the police. What does HE do? He takes her home. And KEEPS HER THERE. And if she has a family? Normal thing to assume in such circumstances is that she has a family which is worrying themselves to death about her now. But why call anyone?! After all we can keep her (Japanese students with their parents dead are known for being extremely rich after all) with no financial problems.
Taking aside financial questions (same as Nyuu's case) let's take other two girls.

Mayu - homeless. There are specific institutions which can help kids who ran away from home with reason. There are multiple things to take care of and here it is lightning fast decision to be made. Who is this Kouta, that he can do such things so effortlessly? If there would have been ONE adult there - no quarels with that. With only Kouta to run the whole thing - it's stretched out. And yes - this time it's truly minor thing, however VERY unreal.

Nana however!! JEE!! She attacks Nyuu violently on sight, without ANY provocation and never gives any reasons for it!! Mayu says she did it cause she was hungry!! What a lame excuse - but Kouta says OK. Very intelligent and reasonable thing to do.

5. Police case - if it would have been as You said - than it would be done good. However they questioned him about missing girl, just BEFORE the whole incident and he said he never have seen her. So he lied to them just like that, cause... no cause.

6. Kakegawa is this prof. and doctor who wanted to mate her. He is also the one who helps her escape.
a) You know, Kouta was sure that military wanted Nyuu for some reason. And when Kakegawa says he knows her family he does it in a manner similar to the police. At the time Kouta already distrusted the police and he decides to silently and obediently give over Nyuu without even telling that there was a soldier with machine gun after her?!
Would You have done it like that? I think not.

7. Escape - Kakegawa helped her by openning the doors (when Kurama trapped her). However what I say is - they had only one weapon effective on dicloniuses - anti-tank rifle. They are holding few dicloniuses inside and they have one weapon effective against them? What a profesionalism!


It is easily seen You have now little time, my friend, is it not so? When I saw You posted I was expecting sth longer, but I guess it's ok, since there are many long post here already. Well, I hope You will find time, but if You don't then it's ok as well After all I doubt that right now I would have stayed up so long without sleep just to answer LOL. Thanks to Your post however memories came - I re-read the first pages again... LOL What a debate it was!

[Rosepetals (#42525)]

@Tammo, since you're keeping the ball rolling on this debate....and because I have about an hour to spare before I start my work...I'll address some of your points again.

[Suigintou (#73373)]

[Joshua (#55329)]

@ Thomas

Okay obviously you belive that their are alot of unanswered questions in Elfen Lied. I am aware that their are series that can do a beter job with answering questions in 13 episodes than others however the story is unfinished and their are things that will be revealed if you read the manga as far as plot. The series fit however many volumes it could which I think the fit up to five and that is how the story has unfolded thus far.

In japan they know that in anime series that the questions may not be answered always and must refer to the manga. Berserk for example was a great series and I don't think anyone can argue with me on that one. i loved it until the very end but the ending just left you with so much to be desired. I want to know why certain things happened and what is next I have to refer to the manga if I want to know. Unfortunately their isn't another season to that epic series.

The same thing should apply to Elfen Lied as far as the story and plot goes. Their just might be a second season to Elfen lied that may answer your questions and in the manga so far they have answered a few and if they stay faithful to that then what? It is unfgfair to judge the plot so harshly to me when a TV series only gives us the info up to a certain point sometimes.

Now as far as the character go I'm just going to make this simple.

Kuramo was killing the diclonious but he didn't know his wife was going to give birth to one when he signed up for the project. he was just getting out of college he might noght have even met his wife yet anyway. He is a scientist and their is no way he could have predicted that the diclonious had a virus that would cause for him to give birth to a diclonious. Even when he did find out more about the diclonious it was already to late he was already in to deep. Yes he was killing the babies because it was his research he was more involved in the project then most so he didn't want to stain anyone else's hands as he had said which makes since. Even though Kurama knew what was going on he probably never thought he would be in the situation that his co -workers were in and even if it was in. when you are to school or if you have a job when things are happening to the peolle around you have you never said that will never happen to me? Regardless of how likely it could seem to be the people looking at you but in your mind you can honestly think that will never be you. Beside he didn't kill his own child because she was alive Mariko is his daughter. So you can't say he killed his own when it was born. As far as the other babies they weren't his so it really never hit him. Do the doctors at the abortion clinics worry about the babies the kill? Most likely no because it is only a job and thats how Kuramo saw it until the issue hit home with his own child.

I don't want to get arrogant but damn I think I made some good points. So I will pat myself on the back even if my opposition doesn't agree with that.

Mayu- You say her situation was just to get sympathy. It has no impact on the story. No Mayu doesn't have a major impact on the story and to be honest no her struggle isn't shown but does it really matter. You have this girl their and she doesn't contribute much to the story but she was made for us to love her. As alot of people do and they love her because she is a victim and we feel sorry for her. Elfen Lied isn't about Mayu so why should she hinder the series anyway? Mayu is a tool. However how can you imply that she isn't acting like someone who has been abused. Tell me how should Mayu act. Mayu's shyness may be the affect of what she has been through. Maybe before she was a happy go luck child who was grabbing life be the horns. when her stepfather took he innocence she looked at the world differently and she hesitates to jump in and that is were her shyness comes in along with her being timid. The story hasn't been finished so maybe she is trying to repress what she has gone through because some children are knwon to do that when they are abused. All of them aren't out becoming prostitutes and commiting crimes although that may be the stereotype of those children. Mayu doesn't have to me messed up so much to were she is psycho. Mayu's behavior although may nnot be to common but it is very much possible and normal. If my mother was familiar with what went on with that girl she wouldn't say she is acting strane or unrealistic she would say " That girl been touched by God". So their are all kinds of things that can go into play about her actions so she isn't unrealistic.

As far as Kouta and Lucy I don't know what is up with them because the story isn't finished so we really can't criticize so harshly. We will have to wait and see how everything plays out.

From the point were Elfen lied ended at I am satisfied with it and think so far it has done a more than average job.

Oh and the violence and Nudity I really don't see how it is so popular off of that because I can name some really gruesome animes but they are crap. You really can't say nudity either when their are so many ecchi series along with Hentai. So it's not like Elfen Lied are the only ones offering these things because if it wasn't good they could get those elements else where can they not?

@ everyone

I hope you are all doing well and have enjoyed my post justt like I have enjoyed alot of yours. I am aware that I a have been battling it out with Thomas but if anyone else would like to comment on my post you are all more than welcome.

[charn (#40191)]

[Shikama (#66793)]

[Splitter (#11007)]

[dirty (#71854)]

[Splitter (#11007)]

[Suigintou (#73373)]

[Splitter (#11007)]

[Suigintou (#73373)]

The thing is... Lucy's horns do grow back, even after being shot off. So, even if she wanted to, she can never remain Nyuu for long.

But that's a good thing. Lucy > Nyuu.

[charn (#40191)]

[Thomas(akaTammo) (#57694)]

Hello there. LOL I'm alone and there is so many of You... LOL

'I will not ask for one at the time - Kakatte koi!!'
I wonder who will know from what it is...


@ Rose

Welcome Back Lady of Nineteen RosePetals.

Thank You for sacrificing the hour and joining in!

And yes - Your arguments I will take into consideration most certainly.

Nyuu and the police case - not only You have said that Kouta sensed sth wrong there thus kept her hidden or that he was attacked and the police behaved weird then he told them this thus he hid her.


WRONG.

First he found her. Then he skipped calling the police. Why? No reason. Naked girl on the beach obviously retarded (knows one word only) with weird horns out of metal, looks of girl near her 16 and mentality of a child near 3. He of course is a good man so he is qualified to take care of her, (why do we need profesional nurses?) so he shows some hospitability.
Later police is coming to him and asks about a missing person. He says he never has seen her. HE LIES. NO REASON. HE WAS ATTACKED LATER.
HE WAS MISTREATED BY THE POLICE LATER.

Scenario needs are overriding here normal behavior, due to scenario makers clumsiness. Normal person (and Kouta after all led 'normal' life except for diclonius incident in the past so he is supposed to react normally) behavior is skipped, instead unnormal behavior is set - due to what Rosepetals had pointed out - it would be resolved too quickly.

For me it is clumsiness. And a flaw. They should have made it so that Kouta would have reasons to do so - it wouldn't have ended quickly and he would have been a character, not a wooden box.

Rose is trying to point Kouta as a sensitive guy, I think that it is going WAY TOO FAR. The only thing he knows in anime is to be nice. His being nice overrides anything. It's more important to be nice than anything else. That earned him nick Wooden Box from me.

If they wanted to portray him in a better light than they had plenty of opportunities, they didn't have to rob him of normal human reactions, or substitute them all with being nice. He is nice, sure, but he is brainless. Tell me Rose, what is Your reaction when You find a naked boy on the beach and he says only "Pim"? What would YOU have done? Aside from nicknaming him Pim.

Nana case... RosePetals. Be serious. Of course he slapped her. That's not the point here. Point is, that excuse was lame as hell and it was pretty much visible then. She was behaving ok, suddenly Nyuu shows up - earlier Nana has seen Kouta, Mayu, probably Yuka as well, this I'm not sure). Nana goes berserk and storms at her (check out if she even is not saying sth like it's You!). She hurls at her hard, furious. Later she is slapped by Kouta and runs away. She attacked selectively!! It wasn't like 'I'm hungry give me food or I kill You' That one is streched out Rosepetals, Your excuse is not possible. Nice try EL Lover, but no use


He was yet again battling this amazing warrior. Yet again he was reminded how should he dance with rose petals scent around him. Yet now he noticed difference, it was less perfect, it was like she was ... in a hurry?
He relaxed - this time there won't be any sudden attacks, unlike last time.

[Rosepetals (#42525)]

[Suigintou (#73373)]

Er... What's PSME?

And btw, Shingetsuten Tsukihime doesn't do justice to the games. =\ Akiha is so much stronger than how she was portrayed in the anime.

[charn (#40191)]

@tammo..

you know what I think is very interesting between your criticism about lucy killing kouta's dad and the similarity between EL and tsukihime ?

you commented about the fact that kouta forgave lucy that she killed his dad and his sister is unrealistic.. but actually in tsukihime (which apparently, you like it) there are 2 incidents which are very similar.

Tsukihime spoilers below

[Splitter (#11007)]

Sorry about this, but I have to know what the rest of you think about this can of worms........

SPOILERS AHEAD!!!

In Episode 13, Kakuzawa revealed that he's a diclonius.... but wait! So is his son! It was made clear quite a few times in the series that a diclonius can't reproduce, so is Kakuzawa a special case like Lucy? Or better yet, is he an original diclonius like Lucy?

[Suigintou (#73373)]

Kakuzawa and his sons are wannabe Dicloniuses!! They can't even use vectors. How lame is that?

Lucy is the ONLY special case as far as Dicloniuses are concerned.

[Seven Of Four (#63088)]

I thought only the women could use vectors, and they spread the Diclonius gene by infecting people with their vectors??

[Splitter (#11007)]

[Caddberry (#27690)]

I cover a lot here.. Just my thoughts and opinions.. Read on if you so desire.. Because I'm right.. LoL Some things I covered unnecessarily as they were done, but I didnt realize that as I responded while reading.. Only one issue is like that I believe.. But it goes to prove a further on down the road point anyway..

[Suigintou (#73373)]

[Kaj (#32327)]

haha I can't believe this is still going. I haven't visited this place for about a month now In fact, I haven't been around much at all. Going through an anime dry patch currently can't be arsed watching anime and visiting anime related sites now for some reason hehe.

Well, I can't say I have the motivation to pick this one up again. Probably just end up rehashing everything that's already been said anyway. Have fun

[Thomas(akaTammo) (#57694)]

Onore Kaj! You made me come back in here...

LOL.


OK. Here it goes. Out of duty, not out of joy.


@ Caddberry

LoL

[Suigintou (#73373)]

It is mentioned that Diclonius can deflect bullets. In one of the flashbacks, it features them firing shots at a chained Diclonius for observation and the directors sons makes observations about the results. Obviously, they've been working on it considerably over the past few years. It just so happens that Lucy is very skilled at it. In Nana VS Lucy one (in the cemetary) even Nana was surprised at how much stronger Lucy's vectors were.

As for the guards... They were on a need-to-know-basis. And they didn't need to know. (/The Rock) None of the guards even knew she was a Diclonius. Nor did they know what a diclonius was, let alone know what they were capable of. They were given very vague orders, obviously for safety reasons. Telling a guard what they were up against and what it was capable of doing is no different than the president revealing classified information to a lowly guard. (Or something) Besides, if they were operational for over 10 years without a single Diclonius escaping, why would they suddenly feel the need to start telling them about it? =\ Simply put. They. had. no. reason. to. know. Why? Because they weren't important enough. They were there for the sole purpose of dying. And quite admirably, they did their jobs.


the director and son being diclonius, that was purely a joke. I said they weren't originals, because they can't use vectors. =P (Though, in the manga...)

As for relationships, yeah. That was extremely ambiguous. I didn't think it made much logical sense, but still... it was about time Lucy got a decent break, so I forgive the writers.

Btw, I did see PSME a while ago. It was pretty good. I wish I could remember more than that little brat Rin fighting against the other dude, though.

Finally, did you like Tsukihime? I didn't really like the Arc x Shiki pairing, but found more interest in Akiha x Shiki. Those two would make SUCH a better couple.

[Caddberry (#27690)]

[Thomas(akaTammo) (#57694)]

[charn (#40191)]

Tammo if you are correct about the incidents between Shiki and Akiha's father in tsukihime that means my 'critique' eyes got the thing wrong. Oh well I watch anime after I finish work every day so maybe my brain was not really functioning well ..

I'll rewatch that part of tsukihime again though .. Although even if that part is like what you said, my impression on tsukihime wouldn't get any better .. I like Elfen Lied more than tsukihime ..

[Suigintou (#73373)]

He is correct about Shiki Nanaya and Akiha's father.

I liked Tsukihime, the anime. They treated Akiha extremely well.

As for the ending, I think the writers just wanted to tell us to read the manga to figure out what really happened. In most cases, it worked, as people flocked for scan and translations. =)

Just goes to show you that manga is ALWAYS better than anime, a few being exceptions. That could very well be a message the director was telling us.

"Anime suucksss... manga ruuulesss"

[Joshua (#55329)]

Elfen Lied is a great series I really don't understand why are their still people trying to fight it. Is it perfect? No it isn't but great nonetheless.

Why not except the characters as they are? Yes somethings the characters do may seem dumb or irrational but thats how it is in the real world. People won't always make the right decisions some people make decisions and they don't even now why the did a certain thing but they do in the heat of the moment. I know and have seen many people do things that i thought were not very rational and that wouldn't be realistic I guess to some.

If Kouta is one dimensional fine their are people like that.

Regardless of what anyone says whatever the shortcomings the characters of Elfen Lied have it isn't enough to hinder them because they are out their but so am I. Their are people in the world like that. Why be typical. Typical is boring and IO am glad that the series changes things and took risk.

Now with the stories plot holes or whatever you can't fault the series still. Up to the end it was till a very good series and it just so happned that their are still somethings about the diclonious that we don't know. That doesn't bother me because we did find out somethings and realisticly their is no way we could know it all and as a new species how can they now all the answers. So to me it is fitting how can they give us answers about the answers that they don't have in that point of time in the series.

I'm very sure that if their is a second season or something more things will be clear. You want to now more about what is going on read the manga. Don't complain about the situation do something about it if you can. You also need to put yourself in the view point of the japanese who are the creators because thats how they are with their series sometimes.

Sometimes you won't get all the answers because they don't have enough money to continue so you have to read the manga. If certain people can't deal with this then how can you really appreciate and fully understand japanese animation as a whole because Elfen Lied isn't the first series like this and it surely won't be the last.

Berserk is the biggest cliff hanger of all . So much is unanswered but it is one of the best I feel and obviously others because look were it is on the top 200. Despite them not finishing their story in an animated series it still goes on.

I'm not saying oh the have a manga so that solves everything but I do think that as anime fans some of us should be more understanding. Their isn't one anime that I can't find anything wrong with but their are some good and some bad the overall picture is what should be important.

[Suigintou (#73373)]

[Sixfortyfive (#75771)]

Kota didn't trust the police because Bando scared the hell out of him, remember? He wasn't about to hand over Nyuu until he had a better idea of what they were up to.

[Thomas(akaTammo) (#57694)]

@Suigintou:

[Suigintou (#73373)]

They knew Lucy could deflect bullets. Did they expect for her to escape though? No. I think the guns and equipment they were given were to prevent intruders from going in... not things going out. And the Diclonius in the flashback tricked everybody while they were still trying things out, which is why it was able to break free at least that much (until shot anyway). Since then, it's not out of the question that they don't cut Dicloniuses so much slack. Lucy wasn't an exception, as she was completely tied down until the scene started.