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 Forum index » Anime Series Discussion Forum » CODE GEASS Hangyaku no Lelouch
Can R2 be taken seriously? [SPOILER]
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fnord (#129232)
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  Can R2 be taken seriously? [SPOILER]
I'm opening Pandora's Box here. I know. But the subject is itching under my nails, and I can't keep it to myself any longer. Let me elaborate before the witch-hunt starts.

1.) Overuse of Lelouche's Geass

Giving an irrefuteable order is like an excuse for deus-ex-machina-ing the story in my opinion. His Geass was the same during the first season, and it did not come across nearly as ridiculous as during the second. Most extreme example would be his geass-d'état after the Ragnarok connection where he simply orders everyone to acknowledge him as emperor. I'm not saying his Geass doesn't give him the power to do that, but to actually resort to that twist is poor storytelling in my opinion.

2.) a.) Schneizel

Installing Schneizel as the ultimate villain of the series stands, in my opinion, as one of the strangest plot decisions possible. Charles had charisma. Charles had reason to be the villain. Schneizel is so empty of appropriate motivation that his twist from being slightly Lelouche-leaning to being his mortal enemy passes as believable since he was an empty husk in the first place.

2.) b.) Charles, and the Ragnarok connection

This point primarily centers around a single episode - 21. It ressurects Marianne (who had been talking to CC by way of living inside Anya, granted) and kills her off five minutes later - the mother of the protagonist. The antagonist, father of the protagonist, explains his master plan and is defeated in a matter that blatantly parodies the Instrumentality of Man after he makes a flying attack on his son. The Zero Requiem is deliberately withheld at this point to maximize the shock value of the several twists presented.

3.) Circular twists

Twisting the story around in a circle to make it longer and able to branch out even more. Example: Orange's defection to Lelouche. While, again, completely insufficiently explained in my opinion, there is little point in it except to prolong a subplot. Other example: Lelouche's return to school, and Sayoko's transformation to a deadly Ninja - if she was hinted at to have such powers in the first season, please point it out to me, as I recall no such instance. While I know that the whole school business was only ever intended to be comic relief, I cannot help but feel it was reintroduced to puff up the plotline.

4.) Fan-service

I don't mind the occasional fan service, in fact, I probably enjoy it as much as anyone. Kallen's half-open suit in episode 19 (the island episode with Euphie) was very hot. However, being treated to shots of her behind and Cornelia's curiously increased bust all the time only irritates in my opinion.

5.) Nina, or, the Freya warhead

I don't doubt her sadness over Euphie's death, but being compelled to invent a mass-destruction bomb because she was reminded of this by Schneizel seems very weak to me.

Especially 1.) can be split up into a multitude of smaller sub-points where precise twists could be discussed, but I don't think that's necessary since we all saw the show and that would only make this post unreadable. I'm sure you know which twists I mean. My point is that I think the writers intended the second season to be parodic. Most of my points centered on abstruse plot developments which, while very amusing, can't be taken seriously in my opinion. The necessity for outlandish storytelling is not justified by anything directly related to the story, it's only stylistic. You watch an episode and it passes in a flash, but once the episode is said and done you are left with a massive "What-the-hell-did-I-just-watch" feeling. It's not that the plot was unsensible, strictly, but more because it made the definite and continuous attempt at defying the viewer's short-term expectations. It was meant to produce a long chain of WTF?'s which satirize traditional storytelling.

So, yeah. Slaughter me.

edit:
Thx, Veleon.

PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 1:01 pm
Last edited by fnord (#129232) on Sat Jan 17, 2009 8:37 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Daizengar (#99576)
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 @ fnord
I don't think anyone would go to the extent of slaughtering you. In fact, I think most of the viewers would agree with you.

I find Lelouch's Geass usage in R2 to be ridiculous not because it is overused, but rather the limitations. There seems to be none. I'm not refering to the spec of the geass but the spec of the command. At one point, Lelouch orders a bunch of Brits to be his slaves. They proceed to be under his command doing anything he orders them to do for as long as it is needed to be his slave (which is forever). Why would Lelouch issue a different command? He figured the specs of his geass pretty early in season 1, so he should just issue the 'be my slave' command every single time.

I think Schneizel could pass as Lelouch's arch nemesis. He was frequently refered to as the scheming one in season 1 and he is the only person who can beat Lelouch in chess. Charles is charismatic and strong in his survival of the fittest beliefs while Schneizel is sneaky and concocts his own plans in the shadows. Both are potentially good antagonists in my opinion, just on different ends of the spectrum.

PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 4:09 pm
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Veleon (#124559)
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 Someone might want to add spoiler tags to the thread title.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 8:00 pm
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Shinka (#128364)
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Location: umm... I dont know....
 I agree with you on most parts fnord, since R2 certainly had a strange feel to it. They went too far, exagerated a ot of things and made it too big. A personal conlifct turned into a world wide conflict. As amussing as it all was, it was disproportional.

I dont think, however, that their intention was satirical, they just, like you said, had to expand it as much as they could with little actual story development to go on with, thus all the "WTF!!??"s. What would be the point in paroding oneself if they are not looking for a humor spin, which I dont think they were.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 2:19 pm
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kurama_evilfox (#85861)
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 fnord:

1) Before zero requiem, Lelouch is showing lots of restraint regarding his geass ability. You can see his commands usually do not have a lasting effect over others. (He could have always ordered everyone to be a slave of his) When he started zero requiem, he already had the "resolve" to die and thus all the "slave" command or geassing the entire court.

2) Schneizel had been marked as the final boss ever since S1. (Lelouch chess opponent that he never beat before)

3) There are hints of Sayoko being "someone special" even in S1. Remember when Nunally being captured by Mao? It is Sayoko who released Nunally in an EXTREMELY CALM manner. I know that I wouldn't be that calm if I was asked to release a tied up girl with a bomb on my head.

PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2009 8:19 am
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