AnimeNfo

[Ken Hayashi (#52012)]

 Hayao Miyazaki vs. Makoto Shinkai

[Shinka (#128364)]

Well, I dont know if it'd be correct to say who is better, since they are both quite diferent. In terms of narration, both of them are simply great; however, their are a few things in Miyazaki's style that I dont like, so I'd lean more towards Shinkai. I belive the first Miyazaki movie I saw was Howl's moving castle (talk about late discovery, eh? =P, but I knew him before I knew Shinkai), and I liked it. Maybe the weight of his name conditioned me a bit, I dont know, but I think its a posibility, cause even before I saw the movie, I knew, from numerous sources, who he was, but I still liked him. I dont focus much on the ideals que tries to push into the audience, and rather simply enjoy the movies

[Veleon (#124559)]

If I knew what movies were Shinkai's maybe i'd have an opinion on these.

[Ken Hayashi (#52012)]

Hoshi no Koe (Voices of a Distant Star)
She and Her Cat
The Place Promised in Our Early Days
5 cm Per Second

I've seen the first 3 and I like his style. He's very different from Miyazaki, but both are really good story-tellers. Miyazaki has the benefit of previous fame to back him up, and a whole catalogue of past successes. Shinkai is a relative newbie to this game but has already made his mark.

Some may say Miyazaki is overbearing in his messages. It's like he's stuffing them down your throat. BUT, you can choose not to listen to them and just simply watch his movies for the pure joy they bring. Heck, I didn't even care or know what message he was trying to put across the first time I saw Nausicaa, but sure as hell, I loved and enjoyed that movie.

What about Totoro? I saw it years ago and to me it was just a sweet story of two little girls and a cat bus and a big fluffy thing that floats in the air. You need not care about the underlying messages if you don't want to.

I find Shinkai to be more down to earth about his stories. Hoshi struck me with the thing about sending SMSes across the galaxies. Something that I did so frequently without much thought because such a big deal.

I can't say who's better. I'd like to say I've been very objective when judging the two, but I think I'd lean towards Miyazaki because of his vast body of work and that I love so many of his movies.

[Veleon (#124559)]

I've only seen 5 cm per second, and I prefer Miyazaki to 5 cm per second. Miyazaki is like Pixar to me. I can just sit down and enjoy his work without having to think at all. I can relax and feel good just simply watching the movie for what it simply is. I have never looked at the messages he was trying to say. It's not like they are hard to see. Miyazaki is just someone who will always make good movies in my eyes. Whenever a new Miyazaki film gets made I will be sure to watch it subbed and dubbed.

[VivisQueen (#135963)]

I've been watching Myazaki since childhood (without realising consciously it was his works). Only this year, after hearing much hype, have I picked up anything Shinkai. I must say, whilst I'm impressed by Shinkai's animation skills and creativity, I'm far more charmed by Miyazaki. What is sad, though, is that it seems Miyazaki's works are getting more and more predictable (more abstraction, more cute things, more money, money, MONEY!!!), whilst Shinkai's newer stuff is starting to hit the emotional nail on the head for me. (Mind you, I've seen only Voices of a Distant Star, She and Her Cat, and Place Promised).

I think it'll be a while before Shinkai really reaches the Western appeal that Miyazaki has. Whether having more cross-cultural appeal necessarily makes Miyazaki better or not is another question, I guess.

[Shinka (#128364)]

[Ken Hayashi (#52012)]

Miyazaki's focus has always been making anime that appealed to a wide audience, whether they were commercially successful or not. His motivation has always been to entertain, while at the same time sending a message across to the older ones in his audience. The fact that his movies can and ARE enjoyed by such diverse audiences, both Japanese and non-Japanese, of all ages, is testament to his story-telling skills.

However, he has always been very bull-headed I guess, in that his messages were always kinda in-your-face. I'm of course referring to Nausicaa and Mononoke. Totoro and Kiki were more whimsical.

On the other hand, Shinkai has just about found his niche. He is less polished. Harder edged I would say. And I don't get the feeling he's out to please the masses and is more intent on making what he feels like making. He therefore imparts a more personal touch to his movies.

[Shinka (#128364)]

I've been thinking. Miyazaki has how many movies and years on his back? Shinkai is a baby in daipers, sort of, yet. Do you realize his potential if he's already being compared to Miyazaki? No question Shinkai has already showed a considerable maturity in his work from the very start, but I think he is still growing. I think that eventually Shinkai will be greater than Miyazaki, but he may never be known worldwide like Miyazaki is, which will, in the eyes of the world and audience, mean a failure; but in terms of talent, perhaps, and maturity, he'll surpass Miyazaki, just that he'll never leave Japan, but beacuse os his own choice.

I dont know, this are just guesses, time will prove me wrong or right; but what I can say though is that I much rather Shinkai over Miyazaki, obviously.

[Ken Hayashi (#52012)]

I guess, Shinkai would eventually have to make the choice betwen being true to his art and his own style, or to be more widely known, more commercial and still hang on to some semblence of his original style. His style, as of now, doesn't quite appeal to as widw an audience as Miyazaki.

Funny when you think of it, Shinkai has been compared to Miyazaki almost right from the beginning. I think it was since the Hoshi no Koe and/or She and Her Cat days. Gems, but gems in the rough. Hoshi was low busget and done at home, wasn't it? But you could see the potential. It's not so much the production quality but the story itself that appealed to me. Yet, would something like that, and it's message, appeal to the younger ones? Have they really experienced something like that to connect with the story?

[zitch (#80114)]

To a large degree, I do think Hayao Miyazaki probably influenced who Makoto Shinkai is today. Shinkai has mentioned that Castle in the Sky is his most favorite anime, and I can see the similarities in their animation style (especially in the character animations). And I believe this is to the point that if Miyazaki didn't pave the way, Shinkai may have never gone into animating the stories he wants to tell.

One thing that does make Shinkai different is his unusual path leading up to animating and directing films. Miyazaki took the traditional path of working in the industry (starting as an in-between artist for Toei Animation) before making and directing his own films. Shinkai, on the other hand, started working for a game company (basically dating sims) in 1994, where he learned to use CG to create short video clips for the games. Eventually, the format of these videos felt too limiting for him and he started creating shorts animations on his own time, including works like Tooi Sekai and cumulating in She and Her Cat. The latter got notice of CoMix Wave who funded and worked with Shinkai to create Voices of a Distant Star, which he was working on when they contacted him. The producer of the company also encouraged Shinkai to "be more showy" for this film, as Shinkai was considering something more along the lines of She and Her Cat in terms of mood and flow. Shinkai then quit the game company he was working for and the rest many of you should know. Just a side note: Shinkai still directs game videos, like the openings for the ef series games by Minori.

One thing I read from other fans of Shinkai's work is that it feels that he creates a short music video, then expands from that. I agree with this view, especially with how I also feel Tenmon's music is half of Shinkai's films. Even excluding the music video section of Five Centimeters Per Second, I can't think of many other anime (or even live action films) outside of Shinkai's work where I really notice the timing and dynamics between the visuals and the music.

Of course, one big different between Shinkai and Miyazaki, to come back to the main topic, is their use of CG. Miyazaki shunned computer graphics until Princess Mononoke, while Shinkai embraced them from the beginning. Not too unexpected, given the difference in the years they each learned to animate. But for me, this is where Shinkai really shines: he uses CG not only to make it easier and cheaper to bring his vision to animation, but to also bring the visuals beyond what only hand-drawn cells can do. And while Shinkai isn't the first to do this, from what I can see, he's one of the best to do this on a rather small budget; According to IMDB, the budget for Five Centimeters Per Second was estimated to be ¥25,000,000. That is about $250,000 current U.S., tiny compared to the ¥1,900,000,000 that Spirited Away was estimated to cost seven years ago, and insignificant compared to the ¥2,400,000,000 that is Princess Mononoke's estimated budget eleven years ago.

But, when it comes down to it, which is the better director right now? I'd give that title to Hayao Miyazaki. He has too many years of experience and a long history of making quality films to even think that Shinkai's even in the same league right now. This may change when Shinkai has been making films for 30 years, though. Shinkai is still learning, which makes his potential so much greater right now.

But which do I, personally, prefer? Makoto Shinkai, of course. His work hits me at a much more personal level than Miyazaki's.

UPDATE: I have my notes and work on how I came up with this graph on my blog, but the graph should really highlight the budgeting differences I discovered between Shinkai's and Miyazaki's movies and a few other selected movies (The amounts are U.S. Dollars adjusted for inflation to 2008):



Hopefully, this might be of some interest. For a comparison of U.S. animations, The Incredibles cost $92,000,000 in 2004 and Titan A.E. cost $75,000,000 in 2000.

[NarutoX (#66074)]

i like miazaki better but.....

[Ken Hayashi (#52012)]

Re: i like miazaki better but.....

[Ratem (#137535)]

Just finished watching 5 centimeters for the second time, and it is great!
The first time it wasn't very clear, but now that i've watched it for the second time i've understood everything (maybe...).

[Ken Hayashi (#52012)]

Thing is, some of Shinkai's works don't get understood until after maybe watching it the second time round. Miyazaki's works are more easily digested. But if you delve deeper, there's a hidden message somewhere. It's your choice to simply dwell on the surface message and enjoy it or go search for a deeper meaning. It's not as easy with Shinkai's stuff.

[arunas (#125793)]

Well, I recently watched "Howl's Moving Castle" >> another fairy-tale story. From what I've seen so far, I side with Shinkai. Miyazaki is good and all, but his works are too "light". I like that Miyazaki has a good imagination, putting a viewer in magical places with imaginative creatures, but all of his stories felt as is afterbed tales. I think that I kind of grew out of these things. On another hand, most of Shinakai's animes have a great animation + strong and heart moving stories/storytelling. Shinkai's stories have the more mature plot that is enhanced phylosophical/psychological ideas. That's one major thing in my books, that puts Shinkai above Miyazaki .

That's my take on this issue

[Ken Hayashi (#52012)]

I had wanted to write a piece on this debate, after I watched Byousoku 5cm Per Second. Never came to that as I was too busy. Consider this a summary of what I intended to put out.

I've always felt that Miyazaki tried to appeal to as wide an audience as he could. And he's largely successful in that. His movies are well-liked by all, and it's easy to see why. Great stories, loveable characters. Cute heroines. You didn't need a lot of brain power to digest what he was trying to say, but if you did, you could lok under the surface and see the underlying message. His movies were always so lush, so colourful. Full of characters. Never a sparse moment. There was always something going on.

Shinkai, I think he has almost mastered the art of minimalism. He could do so much with so little. And I'm not just talking about his budget. He could tell so much story with just a few characters. Anyone else was just background, blending in with the scenery. They were there just because they happened to be there. A part of the town's scenery. So there's always that feeling of intimacy with the characters. This is something that appeals to me also (because I also love Miyazaki as much for his grandoise productions) but it may not appeal to the younger audiences.

Miyazaki's stories have widely ranging themes. From fantastical to slice-of-life. Shinkai deals with more down-to-earth topics. Even Hoshi no Koe, set in a futuristic environment,deals with something as simple as a boy trying to kep in touch with his girl.

[Sayuri (#93460)]

I'm actually going to teach a deCal at UC Berkeley on Hayo Miyazaki and Creative Writing next semester. I'm extremely curious about Makoto Shinkai as I've never ever seen any of his work before... How is he different from Miyazaki (aka God)?

[Ken Hayashi (#52012)]

If Miyazaki is God, Shinkai is probably Jesus Christ. Seriously.

It's hard to compare the two of them, they have such vastly differing styles. Yet because they have both achieved such critical acclaim, it seems we can never escape from comparing them to each other.

Since you're familiar with Miyazaki, you probably know his style very well. Shinkai appeals to a more mature audience. His stories are mostly about human relationships. Visually Shinkai is more efficient in that he uses less to achieve more. Miyazaki is lush and expansive and all full of pretty colours and details. Shinkai makes do with sparseness yet it never detracts from his story-telling. In fact, my personal opinion is that, because of that, we are not distracted from the story by pretty visuals.

You really have to explore Shinkai to understand what he's all about. You won't know what you're missing till you watch his works.

[Drake (#126461)]

Is there any question as to who's better?!? It has to be Miyazaki by a long shot. I could go around and ask random people if they knew about either person and I guarantee people would say Miyazaki more than Shinkai. Plus overall the work he produces is far greater than what Shinkai does.

[Ken Hayashi (#52012)]

[arunas (#125793)]

[Drake (#126461)]

I was giving an unbiased opinion unlike what it sounds like you are attempting to give.

[arunas (#125793)]

Well, you sure are using strong sentences and verbs to give your "unbiased" opinion: "Is there any question as to who's better?!?", "by a long shot", "far greater " while you have none of the supportive arguments.

Comparing our both writings, I contrasted both authors' works and expressed the reason why I liked more Shinkai vs. Miyazaki, while all you did was stated almost as a fact that Miyazaki as by far greater than Shinkai and gave a reason that "it's becuase more people know Miyazaki's name". That's a very crappy reason to support such a strong statement and I do not even want to comment on who is more biased on this issue.

[Ken Hayashi (#52012)]

[Veleon (#124559)]

If you look at the highest grossing anime films of all time you will find that Miyazaki is on the list while Shinkai is not. I personally think that says something. It means that Miyazaki knows how to make a high grossing movie, and that is really the only numbers we can look at. Who you personally like better is all fine and dandy, but in terms of what the majority of the world will say, it will be Miyazaki. Miyazaki is known worldwide for making movies people love.

That is how it is now. Shinkai hasn't had a chance to make his name known world wide. However, all it takes is one movie. Which begs the question, if Shinkai is "better" than Miyazaki then why hasn't he become world famous. If he is just going to fill his niche he won't ever be able to please everyone. And Miyazaki does a pretty damn good job of pleasing all who watches his movies.

Shinkai's got the pizza with pineapple and ham on it. Which is fine and dandy for those who like hawaiian style pizza. Miyazaki however has the pizza with the pepperoni on it. Everyone will eat that. Some however may prefer the hawaiian pizza. But Miyazaki has food for everyone.

[Ken Hayashi (#52012)]

[Last Exile (#35342)]

No, Miyazaki is not for everyone...

Not everyone likes kids. I certainly don't.
Not everyone likes or believes in innocence. I certainly don't.
Not everyone likes someone who utterly despises humanity, particularly adults. I certainly don't.
Not everyone likes someone who has long philosophical and moral rants in each of their movies, particularly when there was none or any such context in the original source material. I certainly don't.
Not everyone likes a dreamer who curses reality. I certainly don't.
Not everyone likes someone who neglects their family to perfect their craft. I certainly don't.
Not everyone likes someone who curses almost any other producer/director in the industry today yet praises a twisted parasite like Hideaki Anno. I certainly don't.

I don't hate Miyazaki. And in my reviews, I have noted that I thoroughly enjoyed Kiki's Delivery Service and Spirited Away. However...I found the rest of his works to have siginificant flaws. Which isn't to say I didn't like them. I've never really come close to hating a Miyazaki work. He gets more money because his works are able to be watched and understood by young people. Kids have less subjectivity and critique, so they are the biggest market money-wise.


Makoto Shinkai....
He's a realist.
He's a romantic.
He dearly loves his wife and they work together.
He makes material for adults.
He likes people and is able to draw out the good parts of them and amplify them infinitely.
He is amazingly skilled at extracting the most out of colours and light.
He is able to make the feeling of longing both painful and comforting.
He's built his name and his craft single-handedly from the bottom up.

That is why I like Shinkai more. And that is why, once again, Veleon and I are on opposite sides.

[zitch (#80114)]

[Last Exile (#35342)]

I was under the impression she also did voices in Beyond the Clouds - The Promised Place?

If that is true...damn. I feel for the guy.

Either way - in that aspect of the comparison betwen the two people, my point was Shinkai was able to include people close to him in his work and make it prosper while Miyazaki shut his family out and spent 23 hours a day on his work, spending even weeks away from his family. Wonder why Goro made Gedo Senki and then changed the opening scene so that he could mimic killing his own father? That's why. Hayao treated his family like crap and was never there for them. Whereas Shinkai worked with his fiance.

Where did you find info on his marital status? I couldn't find a proper fan site in English and Wikipedia didn't contain such info. Just what he has done previously, that he spent 2008 in London resting and that this year he is planning to make and release his next piece.

For the record - February 28 was Makoto Shinkai Day on several streaming sites. ANN and other affiliates did several weeks of promotion for it. Clearly there are those in the industry who do want Shinkai to be known more widely.

[Ken Hayashi (#52012)]

[zitch (#80114)]

[Veleon (#124559)]

[arunas (#125793)]

I've also checked out the highest grossing movies . It's basically pokemons, digimons and Yu-Gi-Ohs >> DVDs bought by parents to kids who do not know how to steam or download from the internet. I don't think that these numbers represent ppl. preference to watch a specific anime or towards the director (Miyazaki vs. Shinkai vs. whoever made Pokemons). All these numbers show is that in order to make money, you should target 12 years old audience or somewhere around there + you should commertialize it/know some of the contacts well in order for an anime to be aired in the western hemisphere. These numbers do not represent the preferences of people nor the quality of anime. I believe if someone were to gather the info about total streams or downloads of a specific anime, the anime chart would drastically change.

[Last Exile (#35342)]

I've never seen anything to indicate Shinkai would ever go down the line of Miyazaki's style. If anything, Shinkai is an anti to Miyazaki.