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Ai Yazawa Thread
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Last Exile (#35342)
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 I think you didn't mean to say anime twice just then, Slayer, ne?

Anime went for 47 episodes. I think it's finished, but if it sells enough it could be continued. Manga is at 16 volumes and plenty more left in it. Considering it's the highest selling shoujo manga title ever in Japan, I don't think manga-ka Yazawa is going to be done with it too soon. Which I think is appropriate. Considering how long Fruits Basket, Kare Kano, Sensual Phrase and other long running shoujo-titles went, and that NANA is more story/plot driven than those titles (honestly, what the hell was with the last 6 volumes of Kare Kano? They lowered my opnion of the series so much), I do think NANA could go well into the 20s. But I think Yazawa will know when to end it. She's not the type for filler/drawing it out unnecessarily. Which can't be said for the bove titles/authors. -_- Or that leech of a woman called Ruimko Takashi.... -_-
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2007 4:29 pm
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slippy (#46880)
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 Nana meanders a bit after Volume 12 or so (esp. since a crapload of new characters gets introduced in the next story arc.) It kinda goes into the corporate mechanics of the J-pop/J-rock industry -- very well I might add -- and also you start seeing the 2007 present intermixing with the 2001-02 storyline. And, yes, I'm bringing that up so that people will want to read on in the manga. Very Happy

In a way, it gets harder and harder to read, because well Nana . . . And I don't know if I'll ever fully understand what either Hachi or Reira means to Takumi. Sure in the abstract, but the thing with Yazawa-san is that you can never completely trust what any person says.

Just general thoughts . . .

About Hachi . . . let's just say she changed a lot in the manga. When I saw Hachi becomes the hero of Nana, it's because she grows up a lot in the story.

About Takumi . . . Takumi gets more and more and more and more and more complicated.

As for Nana and Ren . . .

Quote:


Yeah, it goes either way with Nana and Ren. Nana had successfully moved on with her life, and she had grown close to Yasu. If Black Stones were left to their own devices, it's probably Nana and Yasu would have eventually gotten together. Nana and Ren's bond was the music they made with each other. They no longer had it, and frankly Ren betrayed Nana by choosing another singer over her. Ren loves Nana more than Nana does Ren, that's probably true. But Ren also knows he was the one who bailed first and choose Reira and he can sense that Nana has never really forgiven him for that.

The other thing is, Nana loves Hachi. Madly. Hachi is the one character who fills her emotionally, who satisfies her loneliness. So much so that the thought of losing Hachi seems to cause Nana to go into panic attacks. The closer she got to Hachi, the more even-keeled she became with Ren, looking at their relationship and evaluating her own insecurities.



Rosso:

Quote:



>> First, to weigh in on Hachi: I suppose getting too much harsher would be skirting misogyny, but I think slippy’s take on her is actually rather lenient. I honestly kinda disliked Hachi for a good part of the story; pretty much up until she got pregnant.

Yeah, I actually disliked Hachi a lot through much of the beginning of the story. It's really how she handled pregnancy and her marriage that made me admire Hachi, and as I said before, she does become trully the hero of the story. She grows up a lot.

>> Frankly, there aren’t too many characters in _Nana_ that I found readily likeable, outside of Junko and Kyosuke.

Yeah, that's also intentional (often the case with josei stories.) Everybody has serious flaws -- and pretty much every guy in the story (including stoic Yasu) will boink a street pole -- but that's part of the beauty of the story. All the relationships have serious flaws, and Yazawa wants to emphasize that there are no perfect, "fated" relationships. Every one of them has motives, doubts, and a lot of baggage. But, that also makes their relationships real and endearing, since you also see them try to work out their issues and relationships with each other.

>> Anyway, I was really expecting Hachi to be the type of girl to carelessly opt for an abortion without even devoting any serious thought to it, which wouldn’t have done much to improve my waning opinion of her. So, I was really pleasantly surprised to see how the story went from then on for Hachi, for the most part.

Yeah, it's not obvious at first, but Hachi pretty much epitomizes the whore/perfect mother duality. She's fairly self-centered and selfish as a lover. However, as a would-be mother, she's the polar opposite of that. That in a sense is partially why she becomes a hero in the 2nd half of the Nana story.

>> I suppose I can see where the grief over Nobu comes from, though it really doesn’t make sense unless you are approaching _Nana_ as a fairytale. Hachi may have been intensely flattered by Nobu’s sincerity, but his naďve devotion would have ultimately amounted to an emotional banality for her, despite being so rationally desirable.

Yeah, Yazawa keeps going back to that in the Nana story. It's Hachi's proverbial "short haired" vs. "long haired" debate. She dated a husband who used her, and she enjoyed the power he had over her. She dated a "nice guy" like Shoji, and she was always concerned about what he gave her. And note, Takumi is FAR FAR worse than Shoji was ever to her -- at one point Takumi forces sex on a very unwilling Hachi (and Hachi remarks to herself, why do I love this monster?) -- and yet she left Shoji like that.

Hachi meditates over this throughout the story, and she herself admits that she didn't know what she wants. Even when the story goes into the present, things are still interesting . . .

And, yet, that said, that whole situation plays a lot to interpretation . . .

>> did a flawless job of making Hachi painfully transparent as that type of spoiled, immature girl. And it’s not like Hachi is some kind of rarity; girls like that are, frankly, a dime a dozen. All the more reason why the way she changes is so damn refreshing and inspiring.

The thing there is that Hachi had decided to really end things with Takumi and she was going to choose Nobu. But, then, Takumi inadvertingly pressed on Hachi's one big weakness button, which is Nana. When Takumi tells Nana that Hachi is pregnant , Hachi at that point melts down.

>> Ending up with Takumi was probably the best thing for her, in a kind of twisted way. The whole ordeal forced her to confront herself the way she needed to. Typically, putting together an appallingly narcissistic man with an irritatingly histrionic woman is the ultimate recipe for relationship disaster.

The funny thing is, they end up the most stable couple in Nana, affairs and all. It . . boggles . . the . . . mind . .

>> Hachi has become the only character in the story that has truly broken out of her childish mold of quixotic narcissism, and become a strikingly beautiful and admirable motherly figure. She’s the only character whose concern for her friends is not plagued by ulterior motives: Unlike Nana

Yup, very much so.

>> I honestly dislike Nana more than I dislike Takumi. She is essentially just like him, only much more childish. Takumi’s initial response to the ordeal with Shin was similar to Nana’s, asking ‘What will happen to their tour?’ to which Hachi, without thinking, interrupts: ‘More importantly, what about Shin?’ Masterstroke of storytelling and characterization, that. To be fair, I understand the past that Nana is working from, but what I don’t like is that she stubbornly runs away from it. It’s bad, but it’s not incurable; Nana is choosing to play it as a crutch. As well as does Takumi with his own past, though much more cleverly.

Yeah, I've always thought that too. Nana and Takumi are most alike, and even how both of them want to "own" Hachi is pretty much the same. There's two key differences, though, which is why both Ren and Yasu are still Takumi's friends.

1) Takumi can do evil because he is fundamentally stronger than Nana. If he has to, he will roll in the filfth and he will take the responsibility if it fails or if it comes back to him. He does not put that on anybody else. Nana sees herself in Takumi, and that's why she hates him so much. Takumi finds Nana rather amusing in that way, and he resents Nobuo because Nobuo is so cavalier and idealistic and obviously comes from a nice family.

2) Takumi protects his family, be it his domestic situation or his band. And Hachi knows that Takumi, perhaps a bastard of a husband, will be a good, good father. Hachi had always imagined herself within a family unit, the domestic queen and all that. As it turns out, Takumi finds out he REALLY likes having a stable household to come home to, as he's never had this before. To wake up to a hot breakfast and a well-decorate home and a fluffy housewife. Takumi is most pleased.

Hachi and Reira are also very much alike too. The only real difference between Hachi and Reira is that Reira can sing and looks like a princess. Takumi sees Hachi as a woman and finds emotional santuary with Reira's voice, just as Shin sees Reira as a woman and emotional safe place with Hachi.

>> I could really write a short novella about Takumi. Yazawa has hinted that he may not fare too well through the ominous approaching disaster she’s endlessly alluding to. More than anyone else, I’m really interested in seeing how it affects him, even more so than Nana.

Depends if Reira lives or not. I don't know how Ren will handle Nana's "death", but they've implied that our lovable coke addict and Reira grow very close from the tragedy. I'm actually a big, big fan of Ren and Hachi, if nothing else, because it would be really screwed up. Very Happy

>> Takumi is a pro at justifying himself to himself and others, but there are a lot of inconsistencies lurking beneath his over-rationalized façade. I don’t think he truly knows what he really believes in or what he really wants out of life. All he knows is what he is good at; and he clings to it.

Takumi, more or less, is Griffith if Griffith was Sugizo (of Luna Sea.) Very Happy But that's part of the Trapnest mythology. What makes their music great is their underlying dark secret. As long as Takumi can keep Reira "in his cage", Trapnest continues to make dreams for the masses, and continues to be a black hole in the lives around them. It's a variation of the Pygamalion myth, where the sculptor cannot be emotionally intimate with his object of perfection, and his object both longs for her creator and resents.

Yazawa set up the story, so that the 2 true soulmate pairings of the story: Nana K and Nana O, Reira and Takumi, could never be realized into romantic relationships. The relationships that arise from these two impossibilities are meant as the "reality" of our own love lives. All of these couplings make a lot of sense, but they all need work too.

>> I have hope for Hachi though, because I think Takumi could be a really, really great guy if he just stopped being . . . well, Satan. His primary shortcoming is that his ambition has suffocated his moral sensitivities. If he could turn that equation around he’d truly be a perfect match for Hachi.

If you got to read Takumi's backstory, I think there could be an argument that Takumi simply cannot relate to women, simply cannot have true emotional intimacy with a woman. He is his alcoholic father's son -- his hatred of women is compelling because he does get used as much as he uses them -- and yet his utter resentment toward his father is what also redeems him. He's brutal and cruel, but he also takes care of his family, is honest with his actions, and makes beautiful, beautiful art. It's easy to see why he is Yazawa's favorite character.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2007 9:50 pm
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jetz (#121902)
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 Is it OK to say I'm an Ai Yazawa fan when I haven't read any of her manga (I read summaries)? I've watched the anime versions though - I love Nana and Paradise Kiss was also very nice.

I also watched the first Nana movie - I read somewhere that Ai Yazawa wrote the lyrics to the song Glamorous Days. What a talented person!
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 8:16 pm
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Last Exile (#35342)
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 I guess so but you may want to read the manga, it is better.

Good news on the release front. With the end of Shojo Beat's serialisation of NANA, Viz announced quicker releases once we hit 2008. They've already translated up to Volume 12 apparently.

7 - October
8 - January
9 - March
10 - May
11 - July
12 - September
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2007 5:50 am
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angel (#111641)
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 I've read Nana vol.7

spolier?

Quote:
I knew in a way that nana and nobu were going to get together but still, I can belive she's going to break up with and she's also going have Takumi's child, I really like hachi at the begning but I don't know now

But at least Nana O**my idol**it doing ok with Ren. And shin I feel so sorry for him I love him soo much, and why does he have to do these thing he's only 15!!

I hope things get better for them, it's like a happy ending might not happen

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 10:15 pm
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Last Exile (#35342)
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 @angel: Ai Yazawa and happy endings - they don't match. Paradise Kiss is living proof. There's no end to the depths she'll sink her characters too.

I've read 7 and 8. Both feel like a great walk down The Black Parade, frankly. After loving the first six volumes to pieces, 7 was like having my stomach ripped open and left to die from blood poisoning with how black and twisted it was. 8 was definitely an improvement but still rather emo and infuriating but nowhere near as much as 7.

Quote:
Okay, here's my problem. Firstly, most characters seem to lose their mojo or catch the emo disease. Seriously, looking at the characters in this volume, I almost can't recognise them personality-wise. Misato just leeches off of everone, a complete groupie who just throws yet another spanner into the works every few pages then pulls a supposedly cute face or pose. No wonder Yasu is freaked out by her - the girl is bad news. Shin is just a complete mope or posing cute all through this volume - complete lack of personality or anything interesting from him. Nobu - argh. All he does is gush in this volume. Okay, for a few moments, when he gets Hachi to think about someone other than herself and to care more about him, that was alright. But the rest of the sweet talk and tears just feel so trite. She doesn't even break up properly with Takumi and she starts riding Nobu. Makes me wanna throw up.

Not to mention Reira exploiting Shin yet again. Clearly, only Reira is getting something positive out of this. Reira gets depressed, she bathes with Shin and then rides him, pays him like some prostitute and she feels better and he feels even more disillusioned. It is a bit sad that Reira and Takumi are a good pairing in the sense of their styles and that Takumi is the one who can create the backdrop for Reira's voice, but Takumi can't think of her as anything but an object to provide a backdrop for. Freaking jerk. There's nothing noble or admirable in this. Yet again doing something for his own selfish reasons. So Takumi exploits Reira and Reira exploits Shin, Hachi exploits Nobu, Nana exploits Hachi and Nobu. Could this volume get more kineving? Felt more like a soapie than what I'd come to like. Really resent volume 7, I can't read it without having to throw it down every 10-15 pages. It just makes me so mad.

Volume 8 - an improvement on 7, but still infuriating somewhat. Reira goes into an even deeper low and Shin has to fish her out yet again and get her on the upside. It helps her but Shin is clearly on the edge of taking a one way ticket to The Black Parade. It adds some personality to Reira or some humanity. She wants to be a better person, so I actually liked her in this volume, it made it more readable. But for the lofe of...she's screwing a 15 year old, hello?! Doesn't she have the brains to know that even if Shin looks mature and acts sensibly in front of other people, playing him like that is just going to mess with his mind? No wonder the kid is so disillusioned and devoid of reason or motivation. Shin needs a reason to get up every day and do something, but somehow screwing with Reira doesn't fit the bill somehow.

Then enter Hachi's dilemma. Oh snap, she never made Takumi use a condom. Honestly, what person in their right mind wouldn't make the guy use protection?! But what really bugs me is she chooses to keep the baby??? Why?! If this is supposed to be her reason to live, okay but seriously, she is just messing with so many people by doing this. Break's Nobu's heart intentionally, gets Jun and Kyosuke emotionally involved, shatters Nana's psyche, does something that will affect all members of Blast and Trapnest permanently. And most of all, she lets herself be Takumi's puppy dog and boy, doesn't he love it. In 7 he called pregnancy 'inconvenient', yet once he finds out, he knows everything to do and say to lure Hachi in while Nobu just cries and rages and Nana flips out. Real mature people...not. Takumi is the only one that follows any common sense in this volume but it's still all for completely selfish and self-fulfilling purposes. At least some interesting stuff happened in this volume, but few characters were worthy of empathy or interest themselves though. Volume 9 had better improve this situation because after 7 I went from loving this to being one step away from dumping this title and now I'm about one and a half away. These last two volumes have been one major overdose in emo.


Sorry, rose, but I am losing the taste for this series.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 5:26 pm
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Rosepetals (#42525)
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Last Exile (#35342) wrote:
Sorry, rose, but I am losing the taste for this series.


It's okay. It may not be the series for you, but NANA is definitely one of my favorites in the long haul. I think you're on the point where it's really starting to get heavy.


I'm actually way ahead of both you and angel so I want to discuss it more, but at the same time I don't want to spoil anything. It's been a while to be honest since I've read in the single digits of the manga, so I'm having to refresh my memory by keeping up with the English volume releases.

There are quite many characters that haven't even been introduced yet (one of my new favorites even Smile ), and it's not all heavy, not at all, yet I don't want to get your hopes up in saying that this an "overall happy" series, because it's not. It's sad.

And it gives me a reason to really, really just...want to punch Takumi's daylights out, but I'm not spoiling that. I mean, I like him in some modes because of his dedication and backstory, but at the same time...argh. Sad

Hmm....I'm going to give myself some time to refresh and start typing out my thoughts up to the volume I'm at and also respond to your post, Last. I've just been too busy with my school and thesis work to really get into a deep discussion.

That, and also spot watching anime series. Only feasible because I have a new laptop to handle on the go, but meh Smile
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 7:09 pm
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angel (#111641)
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 Even tho I might not get the ending I want I'm going to stick with this series, I love Nana O soo much, so I'm so going to follow this series right to the end.

it soo cool that new characters are going to be introduced so, I can't wait for that. n_n

YEAH FOR YAWAZA!!! Very Happy Very Happy
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 5:03 pm
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Last Exile (#35342)
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 Well, I don't think it's that I hate this title now or anything, Rose. I'm not dropping it yet, if at all. I do remember when doing the long haul of all 21 volumes of Kare Kano and the 3 years I had to wait for them all to get released and that there's several points in that series I either skip completely or just flick through when I reread that series. The 14 Days saga in volumes 7-9, particularly those in 7-8, feel so utterly different from the rest of the series, that they feel rushed, out of place, character emotion seems random or forced, incidents overblown and there was an emo factor that went into overdrive in those volumes. And several volumes in the last third are hard for me to reread due to an overindulgence in emo/why certain people hate each other, particularly since they take 4 bloody volumes to explain a backstory, which is just infuriating. But overall it was a good series, not great because it was such a sappy, sometimes sugary, too positive a series to be believable sometimes. That many characters being in well-off families or living a relationship that was either forbidden or plain weird yet was accepted by everyone around them, not to mention a very wacky ending.

Why do I mention Kare Kano? Because I think its one major flaw was it sometimes overdid the sugar factor, that it was too happy and occassionaly a bit too emo. Whereas in the last two volumes of NANA I've read, it just seems a descent into complete darkness and an exercise in narcissm. It's beginning to annoy me for the opposite reasons certain volumes of Kare Kano did. Also, I'm not really seeing what the overall aim of NANA is. Any other series I've read for the long term, I figure out the aim or purpose is pretty early. For NANA, I'm not understanding what it's trying to do or where it wants to go. At the moment, it feels like its major purpose is to inflict pain and misery on every single character and obliterate any sense of contentment or anything that's going well for a character.

I know getting the balance is hard sometimes. But in my reading experience, I've only ever found Confidential Confessions to get it right. That was still quite a shoujoish series of stories, featuring girls/women and drawn in a shoujo style facing the dark side of life, but it was a mix of pain and hope with varied endings but there was constants - lessons were learnt and the characters coped with it, with varied results. But messages within the story were evident, empathy was always worthy, the stories were loaded with pain not for the sake of pain but because it tied in with the issues at hand and it was countered with the odd positive to make it a story of hope even when things got really dark.

What's ticking me off at NANA at this point is that it's 99% dark/intetional infliction of pain and the 1% relief is just pure sugar. There's no middle ground. It's one extreme or the other and eventually either extreme will reach a saturation point. It's those kind of things that made me give up on the series Life, because it was either a spurt of utter sugar or close to a full volume of utter cruetly, emo and evil. When you see too much of that stuff in a short time, it ends up being 'More of the same? *sigh*'

And my other gripe at the moment is whatever was good about the two Nanas are fading fast. Hachi has been ever so flippant of late. I was able to forgive her naivete for around 6 volumes but she did so many things without consideration for the other person involved without thinking of consequences or even considering common sense. She's getting what she deserves now. (Notice I call her by her nickname now? I don't think she has the right to be called by her real name at this point in time due to what she's done) As for Nana, her obsession on several levels is getting freaky, if it wasn't already. It's getting beyond possessive.

Quote:
And Hachi's decision to keep the baby kind of really infuriated me on a personal level. I considered that an insanely selfish act. She is freaking lucky Takumi is playing along. If someone did that to me in reality, I would consider that to be an ultimate betrayl. I'd cut them off and take a court order to force an abortion. Yes, it's inside her but involving another person in something that life altering, potentially against their will - I don't consider that a noble act at all. I consider it to be selfish and verging on malicious. But that's just me. I know it sounds cold but frankly I think her actions are coercion and deserve such a response. But then again, I wouldn't be stupid enough to not use protection.


I did find 8 to be an improvement on 7, I just hope things get better. I'm not asking for sunshine or that, I just want a better balance between glimmers of hope and the endless backstabbing/coercing that's flooding the tale of late. The fact it's impacting that much on my thoughts is an indication I'm still into this series.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 5:39 pm
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Rosepetals (#42525)
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angel (#111641) wrote:
Even tho I might not get the ending I want I'm going to stick with this series, I love Nana O soo much, so I'm so going to follow this series right to the end.

it soo cool that new characters are going to be introduced so, I can't wait for that. n_n

YEAH FOR YAWAZA!!! Very Happy Very Happy


I love her too, angel. I think she's a cool character Smile She's actually my favorite character among a few others I won't say yet for spoiler reasons Wink

@Last, I actually felt the opposite way (volume 8 spoilers)

Quote:
When Nana K decided to keep her baby, I thought that was the most responsible thing she could do. Abortion-wise, it would have shown a residual immaturity, because if you note from the beginning of the series, Hachi has always had trouble with men, and in a sense you could say she's weak in that she finds herself falling in love and having intimite relations very indiscriminately-she's not a promiscuous person per se-not necessarily in the sense of longing for sex, but longing for someone to complete her-Nobu, at that point, seemed to be the person who was willing to give it all for Hachi..but then again, he's still very immature, and I think Yazawa was trying to illustrate that in so many ways. And if you could really look at what Nana K mentioned in Volume 8, she just couldn't give up her baby, not after seeing the scan, and she probably would have regretted it for the rest of her life. Now, considering it is Takumi's baby....granted that doesn't sit well on a lot of venues, but Takumi isn't as bad as people think he is-he comes across as a real jerk, but in the end, he knows how to take responsibility, he just doesn't know how to deal with women >_> And I have a love to hate impression of Takumi overall, but I can't find myself completely hating him, not at all. You'll see more as the series goes on, but then again, you might even hate Takumi then, I don't know Razz

The point in the overall series is to show a bit of a coming of age/developing story of how two best friends, both Nana O and Nana K, deal with the relationships in their lives, alongside the likenesses and parallels between them. Nana K is probably the character that undergoes the most change in the overall manga, and for me, it was a refreshing one. I always had a like of Nana K, but it's just the mistakes she made that made me feel infuriated, and really that's life. People make those decisions everyday, not even thinking about the consequences long term and the way NANA handles that is very realistic and not terribly farfetched-while it does become oversaturated in points in its own emotion, I couldn't think of a better series that actually ties the relationships and ironies between two groups of people (if you think about Trapnest intertwining with the Black Stones).

I actually loved the "mother's instinct" line from Volume 8, because it was such a potent piece of irony. If you look in Nana O's past, she doesn't really have that grounding of motherhood because she never had a mother. The series builds itself on tieing together both Nana O and Nana K as polar opposites, and also establishing how they were so close even through those differences. I think that's the best way to sum it up, and to keep it in perspective even as the series goes on.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 8:02 pm
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angel (#111641)
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 I'm kinda worried that since the rating is going to be M, I don't think my school library is going to be getting it anymore. They have up to vol.8 but I stiil do have the public one so I don't think I have to worry.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 11:23 pm
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Rosepetals (#42525)
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angel (#111641) wrote:
I'm kinda worried that since the rating is going to be M, I don't think my school library is going to be getting it anymore. They have up to vol.8 but I stiil do have the public one so I don't think I have to worry.


Yeah, I can say that considering some of the scenes that come in later volumes and the subject matter, I can see why they rated it that way.

@Last, one thing to add, I think if you can hold out through some of the volumes, Volume 13 is very funny (Drunk Nana O is a riot XD) And there are some sweet scenes in that volume that made me smile, particularly between Hachi and Nana. It's a balance between drama and comedy from the point you are right now, it's just a matter of sticking with it.

I'm still on volume 16 right now and about to go to 17...I haven't picked it up in so long ^^;;;;
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 3:51 am
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Last Exile (#35342)
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 I think I finally figured out what it is about those 2 volumes that annoys me.

Volumes 1-6 read as something believable/plausible. I don't find what happens in 7 and 8 to fit that. I can't like something that I don't find believable/plausible.

That simple.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2008 4:41 pm
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angel (#111641)
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Last Exile (#35342) wrote:
I think I finally figured out what it is about those 2 volumes that annoys me.

Volumes 1-6 read as something believable/plausible. I don't find what happens in 7 and 8 to fit that. I can't like something that I don't find believable/plausible.

That simple.


Well I read over 7-8 again and I can see what you mean by that



Quote:
Like what what happened with Nana O, and Nobu and Takumi, it was like horde of events and stuff** some events I wished nevered happened and I had tears in my eyes when I was thinking about Nobu and what happened to him***

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2008 1:29 am
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Last Exile (#35342)
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angel (#111641) wrote:
Last Exile (#35342) wrote:
I think I finally figured out what it is about those 2 volumes that annoys me.

Volumes 1-6 read as something believable/plausible. I don't find what happens in 7 and 8 to fit that. I can't like something that I don't find believable/plausible.

That simple.


Well I read over 7-8 again and I can see what you mean by that



Quote:
Like what what happened with Nana O, and Nobu and Takumi, it was like horde of events and stuff** some events I wished nevered happened and I had tears in my eyes when I was thinking about Nobu and what happened to him***


For me it's not the events in those 2 volumes that annoy me. It's the reactions to those events. There's just a complete lack of consistency in action in regards to their character/personality except for Takumi who always will be Takumi. Those kind of reactions just completely negated the empathy I had built up for those characters. It's very damn hard to like a character if you can't empathise with them. Which is a big issue for me.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2008 4:45 pm
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Last Exile (#35342)
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 I bought Nana 9 last week and have read it carefully 3 times now.

Short version: It revived my faith in the series and a bit more.

Long version:
Quote:
Well, within a few pages, I have to strenuously disagree with something Rose said about volume 8, about Haci taking on responsibility by keeping her unborn child. Perhaps that little fragment is true. But from I read in this chapter, it's running away to the max. She screwed up big and she doesn't want to face anyone, admit her fault or even apologise to those she hurt. Ignoring Nobue, that I get. At least Nobu has recovered. The rest, well Shin and Yasu kind of fall under the 'I'm a traitor' deal. But to simply suffer in silence and only divulge anything in a letter to the woman who gave her six months to remember - that's incredibly cold. She can't save face and the innocent, charming girl image is destroyed in the eyes of Blast so she flees to Trapnest, severing all old ties and makes new ones. Typical Hachi. I don't like saying that but it's true. Heck, she even submits to doing it with Takumi, even though she clearly doesn't want to, while Nana is a few metres away. No wonder Nana broke those glasses.

And this is really the fallout of some telling mistakes they mades in Volumes 5-7. This was the period where they stopped confiding in each other and started seeking solace in others. As much as Hachi lets herself be preyed upon/used by other guys, Nana isn't much better. Essentially Ren ditched Nana to be Takumi's soldier and Reira's strummer. Even though Nana can't forgive that, she still sumbits to the guy. Then there's Hachi who submits to any guy she has the hots for. Again, I don't like say it but she's freaking true! Some people tell Takumi to keep it in his pants. Geez, even Hachi is worse in that department than Takumi. Hachi and Nana settle for guys that they don't love that much and let themselves be used. In earlier volumes, when they had problems, they'd cry in each others' arms, sing and smile, sleep in the same bed, do the little things for each other that made life better. I'm pinpointing the change in this behaviour on 3 events:

1. Hachi convinced Nana to come to the Trapnest concert. Ren goes after Nana and Nana allows herself to be drawn back in.

2. Misato enters the frame. Nana spends time and chats with Misato instead of Hachi. Hachi gets incredibly lonely and starts doubting whether Nana even cares about her anymore. Hachi starts lying/hiding the truth about her thoughts and is incredibly weak at this point. Freankly I REALLY hate Misato. She ruined everything between Hachi and Nana. I almost gett he feeling she intentionally did this with an ulterior motive. Hell, we still don't know who she really is. I'm sure it was intentional!

3. Nana invites Ren and Takumi over for that mahjong game. Okay, it had good intentions, but it was the fatal blow. Once Hachi gets drawn in by Takumi, game over.


It is just so creepy to see Takumi in action in 9. Forces Hachi to have sex, while pregnant, against her will. Turns Hachi into the submissive, silent wife. Treats and refers to Reira as if she were less than zero. Bad enough for what he did to Hachi, but what he does to Reira. Makes me sick and vengeful. Honestly, she's the main reason Takumi even has a career or a name in the business. It just occurred to me and it's hilarious. The fans of Trapnest mainly care about Reira and Ren. Yet Takumi, the one who masterminds this whole scheme, is seen as a mere base player. Only those in the industry and close to the band know Takumi is the one in control of the band. But he doesn't get recognised as being that. Mr. Ego isn't seen as the big one? Yet I think Takumi wants it that way. Let Reira and Ren cop the heat and hassles whil he can get away with manipulating those he snares in because no one cares to look. Some of the comments about him from others, especially that director, make me laugh. Heck, they know he's a scumbag and are looking forward to seeing him stuff things up with Hachi. And even Takumi knows he's sheltered Reira too much and done her wrong. Yet he just doesn't care. I simply get the feeling Takumi is what Yazawa sees as men in general - charming and good-looking but manipulative, selfish and vengeful.

Which really feels me with despair if I dwell on it too much, so I don't. I get that Yazawa has had some very painful experiences with men. I get that women going through that but coming through the other side stronger and better for it is inspiring to other people. But here's the downside. It's a staple in shoujo manga/anime and the amount it happens in the long/high selling series, it gets to a point of saturation, irritation and ultimately despair. Because frankly I don't think Yazawa sees anything decent in men at all. At this point she's degraded them all, partially through their own devices.

Takumi - Charmer and musical genius but utter sociopath in reality.

Ren - Talented and soulful but ditched the woman who loved him to be someone's pawn.

Nobu - Good intentions and treats people, especially women, well, but has virtually no spine and shies away when other men get in the way.

Yasu - The supposed wise one with a cooler head and looks out for his bandmates, but heck, when it comes to proper relationships, he just doesn't do anything himself. He can give advice to no end, yet when it comes to doing it himself, he fails. That bit with him and Reira in 9 shows that all too well.

Naoki - Nice guy but his head is so in the clouds it's not funny. This guy's dreamer/idealist aspect eclipses even Nobu's. But at least this guy has some balls.

Shin - The closest thing to a decent guy. But he used to sell himself for cash/board and he's in an illegal relationship. So he strikes out too.

It's just fairly depressing to see that the women in these stories mostly end up with guys who treat them like crap and are so wrong for them, yet they cop it, almost as if it's what they're meant to do. Does it mirror reality somewhat? Yes. But still, this is the majority of what I'm seeing in the relationships in shoujo manga. Heck, even in Kare Kano. Yukino ended up being heavily betrayed, even raped by Soichiro. The guy, despite his good looks, insane intelligence and decency, gets twisted and emo and makes Yukino suffer for it. Yet she forgave him and...changed him, for lack of a more appropriate word. Which just seemed so implausible and inconcievable. Who the heck forgives a guy for raping them? Sorry, never heard of that happening. Beautiful, kind women ended up with monsters that defile and sunder them? Why is this the status quo? It just makes me sad because it's almost like that it's setting a stndard or saying that's what guys are like in general but we'll just cop it in silence and try to be happy anyway. My mates feel the same about this aspect of shoujo manga/anime.

But I did like this volume. Why? Definitely not for Hachi, Nana or Takumi. I liked it for Shin, Reira and Naoki. Shin seemed to stop acting so spoiled, or at least tone it down. When Reira was in so much pain, despair and self-loathing in 9, not to mention her writer crisis in 8, it wasn't Takumi or Yasu or her bandmates or that. It was Shin. Despite his fluctuating immaturity and his self-loathing, Shin's dedication to Reira is very touching. The thing that makes this work is that Shin is able to see Reira as a person and not just a singer. Reira goes through an inner struggle of whether she means anything if she can't sing. Shin is the only one who believes that. Takumi porbably knows he should treat Reira better, but his care factor and pride get in the way. Heck, why he always snubbed Reira's feelings from the start just eludes me. Yasu - hmmm, part of him still cares for Reira yet he doesn't give into that. He just acts cold. Reira is desperately seeking love or at least friendship with all of her soul and the guys she's known have all cut her deep. Yet the most unlikely guy of the bunch is the one who comforts her and gives her value and self-belief. Both Shin and Reira have evolved quite a bit in the last couple of volumes and I really enjoy reading those sections where the focus is them. Even though Reira is a fair bit older than Shin in actual age, in an emotional/maturity sense, they're about the same or maybe Shin is slightly ahead. Despite the issues of the age gap, they seem to be the most plausible/likeable pairing. Slippy argued Hachi+Takumi were the most stable couple. Shin and Reira are the likeable one by far. I hope this ensuing Blast vs Trapnest saga doesn't tear them apart.

Naoki finally gets some time, took long enough. -_- His backstory was quite an interesting one. Despite all the madness and sleaze and evil around him, Naoki has remained untainted by that. He's a decent guy with talent, passion and dreams. If only those dreams weren't so far detached from reality that they were impossible to fulfill in reality. But he provided a good template for showing that Takumi always was a jerk, a schemer and always will be along with the naive Reira, the cold Yasu and rebel Ren. And thankfully, Naoki is the one guy who doesn't look majorly Visual Kei or punk. He actually looks like a normal guy. Makes him so more likeable. I hope good things happen to this guy. He seems to deserve some happiness. I've also got this weird feeling that he would a decent person for Hachi. Naoki knows how to treat a woman well but how to keep it real too. And Hachi, despite her faults, won Naoki over within seconds. They're on a similar vibe. I think they'd work. But Blast vs Trapnest might shoot that idea down too.

And the reactions of characters in general were believable in this volume. Nobu hardened up and got on with things. Nana began to show cracks in her normally solid self. The conflict of her wanting to get Hachi back but her pride getting in the way of confronting Hachi - delicious. Reira crumbling when Takumi delivers his bombshell so tactlessly but with valid reasons. Shin being bratty yet the one to fix things. Yasu being the wise one to look over others but unable to comfort.

Well, this volume stirred up some powerful positive emotions but a lot more negative ones. Hope things don't stay too gloomy but then again, it's Yazawa and she's been doing it this way for over 2 decades. I've come to expect it now. But at least it was good reading this time. FAR better than 7 and 8.

One more thing - I saw George in the bonus pages. How is that attractive?! I'd shoot myself if I was George. -_-

End rant. Looking forward to Volume 10.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 5:21 pm
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Rosepetals (#42525)
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 *takes out her harisen and taps Last on the head lightly*

Good to see you liked it a bit more at least Wink I actually have a long response to your post coming, but I think I'll wait a bit before I do, just know it's coming in the next few days.

On kind of an aside note, does anyone know when the second season of the anime series for NANA is starting? I've heard rumors about it, but haven't heard anything solid yet.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 5:47 pm
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Last Exile (#35342)
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rosepetals19 (#42525) wrote:
*takes out her harisen and taps Last on the head lightly*

Good to see you liked it a bit more at least Wink I actually have a long response to your post coming, but I think I'll wait a bit before I do, just know it's coming in the next few days.

On kind of an aside note, does anyone know when the second season of the anime series for NANA is starting? I've heard rumors about it, but haven't heard anything solid yet.


I'm screwed. -_- It starts with the harisen...
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 6:21 pm
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angel (#111641)
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 I never knew about the anime untill I read in an old issue of shojobeat, I saw the live action they aired it on t.v but it was in chinese subtitles**It was painful watching it** Shin was soo hot!!
and Nana O was so gorgous8) Nana K was ok but nothing comapred to Nana O Very Happy
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 1:36 am
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Rosepetals (#42525)
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angel (#111641) wrote:
I never knew about the anime untill I read in an old issue of shojobeat, I saw the live action they aired it on t.v but it was in chinese subtitles**It was painful watching it** Shin was soo hot!!
and Nana O was so gorgous8) Nana K was ok but nothing comapred to Nana O Very Happy


You're talking about the movie-by chance? Yeah, I *heart* Mika Nakashima; she's quite pretty and I think she made a good Nana O.

The anime is actually really good, if you haven't seen it angel, I definitely encourage you to do so.

I'm still delayed in answering back Last's post-I've been back and forth the last several days with work, but I definitely want to get back to it. I'll try once I finish up most of my work for today, maybe this evening.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2008 2:58 pm
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angel (#111641)
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rosepetals19 (#42525) wrote:
angel (#111641) wrote:
I never knew about the anime untill I read in an old issue of shojobeat, I saw the live action they aired it on t.v but it was in chinese subtitles**It was painful watching it** Shin was soo hot!!
and Nana O was so gorgouse) Nana K was ok but nothing comapred to Nana O Very Happy


You're talking about the movie-by chance? Yeah, I *heart* Mika Nakashima; she's quite pretty and I think she made a good Nana O.

The anime is actually really good, if you haven't seen it angel, I definitely encourage you to do so.

I'm still delayed in answering back Last's post-I've been back and forth the last several days with work, but I definitely want to get back to it. I'll try once I finish up most of my work for today, maybe this evening.


I want to watch the Nana anime but since it's only in japan right now I;m going to have to wait untill*hopefully* some comapny licenes it unless it's already licened and I didn't know about Very Happy
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2008 3:48 pm
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Rosepetals (#42525)
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 I think the anime for NANA was licensed by Viz Media back in July of 2007, but I haven't heard anything about a release date yet for the DVDs or if they plan to televise it anywhere. Sad

I could be very wrong, but I haven't heard much information about it at all.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2008 3:58 pm
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rosepetals19 (#42525) wrote:
I'm still delayed in answering back Last's post-I've been back and forth the last several days with work, but I definitely want to get back to it. I'll try once I finish up most of my work for today, maybe this evening.


You've had me in suspense for a bit over a week now. >< Am I in for a trashing or regaling?
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 3:22 pm
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Rosepetals (#42525)
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Last Exile (#35342) wrote:
rosepetals19 (#42525) wrote:
I'm still delayed in answering back Last's post-I've been back and forth the last several days with work, but I definitely want to get back to it. I'll try once I finish up most of my work for today, maybe this evening.


You've had me in suspense for a bit over a week now. >< Am I in for a trashing or regaling?


Nah, actually, I'm debating answering some points because some of them you're right on, but I don't want to spoil you, but at the same time I also have read quite a bit ahead and I'm trying to write what to say and what I interpreted from the manga at the point I'm in right now.

Trashing isn't my style, you know that. Razz You make some very good points though.

I'll edit my post in a little while and you'll see what I mean. Oh, as far as the harisen thing-that's just me being a total goofball. Laughing I don't mean it seriously, if anything it's more in fun than being upset by anything. I mean, asked Cataphract, he's been hit goodness knows how many times with it and he's still fine. Although....he told me the Tylenol and Band-Aid didn't help ><

I've just been so busy with my thesis that my writing energy has been more spent with that than writing what I have to say in other venues >.<

Edit #2: All right, let's do this *rolls up sleeves*

Quote:
As much as it's been a while since I've read volumes 7, 8, and 9, I can see where you're coming from and I respect that. Granted, I've had to go back in the volumes and refresh my memory as to what happened in what volume, because I've read NANA and I've also seen the anime series (which is very well adapted, quite spot on actually). And considering I've had my own set of tongue/memory slips, I'd rather not say something that has you going "What...that didn't happen...yet." XD

Now for Volume 9, it's really the point where the relationship between both Nana's become more distant at an even greater stretch, and Nana O's descending is very clear here, even from the conversation that she has with Takumi and Hachi and Nana O can't really say much to counter it. That was a difficult confrontation. When Nana O knocked over both strawberry glasses in the aftermath, that's one of the points in the series I really found potent, because that's when their relationship really becomes apparent in its confliction. 'Twas sad really, because reading into how they purchased the glasses as a pair and she cracks one, then

I'll admit, it was really painful to watch both Nanas and Takumi in this volume, I agree with you wholeheartedly there. Hachi really does seem like she's running away in this particular volume. And that's even clear from when she's in the encounter with Nana O and Takumi at the beginning of this volume...in latter volumes, though, it's a little more clearer that she does indeed take responsibility, but it's a difficult road getting there, and the whole time, she does care for Nana O, that point should be emphasized. Even with her talking to Takumi, you can infer that, but Takumi makes it clear that he's part of the equation in her life right now...something perhaps Hachi needed to really come to terms with.

I think instead of going into my own interpretations of this volume separately, I'll address what points you made and just touch on them.


First things first: quoting what you said in italics because the tag in white otherwise screws up when you try to double quote within a quote.

Well, within a few pages, I have to strenuously disagree with something Rose said about volume 8, about Haci taking on responsibility by keeping her unborn child. Perhaps that little fragment is true. But from I read in this chapter, it's running away to the max. She screwed up big and she doesn't want to face anyone, admit her fault or even apologise to those she hurt. Ignoring Nobue, that I get. At least Nobu has recovered. The rest, well Shin and Yasu kind of fall under the 'I'm a traitor' deal. But to simply suffer in silence and only divulge anything in a letter to the woman who gave her six months to remember - that's incredibly cold. She can't save face and the innocent, charming girl image is destroyed in the eyes of Blast so she flees to Trapnest, severing all old ties and makes new ones. Typical Hachi. I don't like saying that but it's true. Heck, she even submits to doing it with Takumi, even though she clearly doesn't want to, while Nana is a few metres away. No wonder Nana broke those glasses.

All right, all right, I stand corrected by for THIS volume. However, I do stand by my assertion for the latter volumes.

Nobu seemed to recover, seemingly, but theres no doubt the relationship between him and Hachi is still noted with a degree of pain, even in later volumes. I think him and Hachi are a lot alike in some ways, probably even more noted after some things that Nobu does in later context (which, I have a hunch you won't like it, but we'll see when you get to it. Razz) Nobu's still a likable character for me, but, in this particular volume I did feel for him, and he seemed to move forward without completely losing himself. But for the long and short of it: he's still immature, and not sure how to handle his relationships either.

Hachi never fully knew when to let go of her relationships, she's insecure, awkward, and sometimes that makes her extremely frustrating to watch.
Funny how it ties into her moniker as a puppy ^_^ You're right, it's typical Hachi.

I think the scene with Takumi and Hachi after Nana broke the glasses is a bit of a power struggle. Hachi pretty much feels defeated and confused and the way I interpreted it is that she's trying to do the right thing-she doesn't like it and she actually is running away because of the fear of stigma she thinks she's facing from Nana O and the Black Stones members. Remember, she feels sore about Nobu too, so that's 1/2 of the band right there. And I think she didn't want to face them because she felt like she betrayed them, but at the same time, I think she wanted to do what she felt was right...however you want to intepret that, because even when I was at this point of the manga, I could see why she did it and consider her feelings, but it still felt like a blow to the stomach.

And Nana O is also struggling with power, her "ambition" to keep Hachi is no less selfish than Hachi's actions with Takumi here. I actually hate saying that because I love Nana O, but it's true. I think that Nana O...really just had the picture perfect image of her relationships and wanting to defeat everything regarding Trapnest. Taking the man of her affections away, taking her best friend away, she feels robbed and pursues this ambition rather blindly-that was one of the (unspoken) reasons why she knocked over the second glass, I felt. Not necessary being mad at Hachi-I'm sure she was, but not as much as she was feeling bitter at losing the people she loved in her life. That can even date back to when her mom walked away from her as a child. It's really sad.

Takumi - Charmer and musical genius but utter sociopath in reality.

Ren - Talented and soulful but ditched the woman who loved him to be someone's pawn.

Nobu - Good intentions and treats people, especially women, well, but has virtually no spine and shies away when other men get in the way.

Yasu - The supposed wise one with a cooler head and looks out for his bandmates, but heck, when it comes to proper relationships, he just doesn't do anything himself. He can give advice to no end, yet when it comes to doing it himself, he fails. That bit with him and Reira in 9 shows that all too well.

Naoki - Nice guy but his head is so in the clouds it's not funny. This guy's dreamer/idealist aspect eclipses even Nobu's. But at least this guy has some balls.

Shin - The closest thing to a decent guy. But he used to sell himself for cash/board and he's in an illegal relationship. So he strikes out too.

To add my own desctiptions to the mix Razz

Takumi: the love to hate/hate to love businessman, and this is because he's the type of man who's so dedicated to his work and business relationships that he's not the type to be "domestic". He can be affectionate, but it often comes across as a bit...well...harsh. He really doesn't know how to deal with relationships, you can say he's married to his work, and takes on his affections in a possessive manner, making him brash and brute in portrayal. But he tries, he really does. And there actually points in the manga that even I like him, but I just wish he wasn't such a jerk at times, you know?

Ren: Ren is probably like Nana O. in so many ways, it's a little scary. In fact, it's like if the two separate, one can't go without the other without having some kind of flaw. Believe it or not, Ren has insecurities of his own. He's not just a pawn, to say his character's only that doesn't really take into consideration what he feels in the mix, but I think you'll see more of that as you go along.

Nobu: funny you say that, but...never mind, I'm keeping my comments about Nobu silent right now. I like him, but I think he's immature sometimes, funny-but he has a problem with relationships too, almost like Hachi to a tee. And I don't think he ever fully overcame his relationship with Hachi 100% though he seemed to handle it in this volume. As the manga goes on, you start seeing how his own handling of relationships grow more complicated.

Yasu: You hit the nail on the head. Smile

Naoki: Naoki's pretty funny, though I don't know if the difference between him and Nobu are related to...well you know Wink Haha.

Shin: Shin's much wiser than his years but he has his own share of problems and insecurities. But you know, I actually really like his character. His backstory is rather sad if you consider it all, but you could attribute that to why his lifestyle is so screwed up. He grew up way too fast, and I think Ai Yazawa tries to show this in his relationship with Reira among other factors. There's a bit between him and Hachi that goes on later in the manga, but I won't say much on it right now, you can look to it as the story goes forward.

I always figured with Shin it was the lack of a mother figure. He doesn't want anyone babying him, true. Yet, I see him as the type that knows what it's like to be lonely and unloved, but at the same time seeks affection too. There was a line in one part of the manga, don't remember which volume it was, that Shin talked about his relationships with women and noting how lonely they were and wanting to be loved. It was probably the best line I heard from him and had quite a bit of foresight in consideration with the manga's events.

Ai Yazawa has a real penchant for creating ironies and foreshadowing, I can't take that talent for those particular writing devices away from her, she does it well. She probably does it the best in NANA compared to all her other works.

It's just fairly depressing to see that the women in these stories mostly end up with guys who treat them like crap and are so wrong for them, yet they cop it, almost as if it's what they're meant to do. Does it mirror reality somewhat? Yes.

Oh you have no idea. >.< It happens all the time in real life. People in general i think can be this shallow in their relationships, and to be honest I've seen it happen, probably more than I would have liked with respect to some of the people I care about. Again, it is a power struggle. I think shoujo manga does tend to show this on some points, but not all. And Ai Yazawa, i think with this being a josei manga versus shoujo, shows this to reflect reality. Hachi even points it out at one part of the manga that she feels like she's pulled around by all the wrong men, and those, at that, who are bad to her, but she can't pull away. Simple answer in external context would be that there's still the desire that someone loves them, despite how much it hurts, and not knowing what to do beyond that scope if they decided to leave...where would they go and whom would they love again. Love is really a huge force, probably a lot more than people make it out to be. In contrast, so is loneliness, and at its worst, loneliness can really kill a person. I think its the fear of that which makes one come back to a bad relationship. It's frustrating to watch (and painful, but hey, think about the people who actually been through that, it's supposed to be), but it's indubitbly real.

But I did like this volume. Why? Definitely not for Hachi, Nana or Takumi. I liked it for Shin, Reira and Naoki. Shin seemed to stop acting so spoiled, or at least tone it down. When Reira was in so much pain, despair and self-loathing in 9, not to mention her writer crisis in 8, it wasn't Takumi or Yasu or her bandmates or that. It was Shin. Despite his fluctuating immaturity and his self-loathing, Shin's dedication to Reira is very touching. The thing that makes this work is that Shin is able to see Reira as a person and not just a singer. Reira goes through an inner struggle of whether she means anything if she can't sing. Shin is the only one who believes that. Takumi porbably knows he should treat Reira better, but his care factor and pride get in the way. Heck, why he always snubbed Reira's feelings from the start just eludes me. Yasu - hmmm, part of him still cares for Reira yet he doesn't give into that. He just acts cold. Reira is desperately seeking love or at least friendship with all of her soul and the guys she's known have all cut her deep. Yet the most unlikely guy of the bunch is the one who comforts her and gives her value and self-belief. Both Shin and Reira have evolved quite a bit in the last couple of volumes and I really enjoy reading those sections where the focus is them. Even though Reira is a fair bit older than Shin in actual age, in an emotional/maturity sense, they're about the same or maybe Shin is slightly ahead. Despite the issues of the age gap, they seem to be the most plausible/likeable pairing. Slippy argued Hachi+Takumi were the most stable couple. Shin and Reira are the likeable one by far. I hope this ensuing Blast vs Trapnest saga doesn't tear them apart.

I agree with slippy on that when reading to the point I am in NANA right now. But I also agree with you at this point that watching Reira and Shin is very sweet; I felt that way as well. And yeah, this is mainly where Shin's maturity comes into focus, but there are also other points in the manga where he shows unconventional wisdom for the situation.

Haha, and I'm glad Naoki had some time in this volume too-I always liked him, really funny in his reactions. Glad to see you liked volume 10 overall though.

And the reactions of characters in general were believable in this volume. Nobu hardened up and got on with things. Nana began to show cracks in her normally solid self. The conflict of her wanting to get Hachi back but her pride getting in the way of confronting Hachi - delicious. Reira crumbling when Takumi delivers his bombshell so tactlessly but with valid reasons. Shin being bratty yet the one to fix things. Yasu being the wise one to look over others but unable to comfort.

100% agreed. Could not have said it better at all.

One more thing - I saw George in the bonus pages. How is that attractive?! I'd shoot myself if I was George. -_-
Laughing Laughing Laughing

When I saw George, I fell out laughing, particularly since Yazawa loves using the omakes to poke fun at herself and also talk about real life events and stuff that has to do (and not do) with the manga. I guess you have to get used to the guest appearances, ne?

I actually have those NANA albums BTW, they're really good.

All right, those are my actions/reactions in response to your post. Now was that so bad? Wink My harisen really isn't that hurtful...is it? *mulls over the thought as she walks away*



I used the devil of a lot of smileys in that post; it's like they're splotches of yellow on white. Ah well.

I'm a girl full of smiles, so at least it's accurate. =P
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 4:39 pm
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Last Exile (#35342)
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 When you're ready, don't feel any pressure. I've been less active on several fronts with my computing assignments growing in numbers. But knowing a response was coming along with 'the harisen', that kind of generates a fair bit of suspense. That whole harisen thing made me think I really made you mad with what I said. >< A bit of relief I guess, but I still feel I'm in for it somehow.

Don't get me wrong, I really like the 9th volume. Close to my favourite volume. It really did reignite my passion for this series. I just find 7 and 8 VERY hard to read. I could only read those 2 volumes in 15-20 page bursts at best before I get angry and throw it aside. 9 had me from start to finish.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 5:15 pm
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Last Exile (#35342)
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 10th volume came out 2 days ago, read it a couple of times.

Quote:
It's continuing the good form from Volume 9. Certainly things will never be the same thanks to the magainze guy. Still, Gaia Records are also responsible. It's kind of sad to think that couples like Nana & Ren and Shin & Reira are now being forced apart. However, it probably is the best for all parties concerned.

Nana may feel pleasure and comfort within Ren but she never is at peace. She is restricted in personality, playing second fiddle to Ren. Furthermore, Ren gave up on her ideals and chose Reira/Trapnest over Nana. So despite them looking like a good couple, in essence they're not. Nana needs someone that can allow her to be herself yet be vulnerable to that guy. Ren seriously seems to miss the miso soup more than Nana herself.

Reira, hmmm. The more I see her, the more I worry there's something just not right in her head. Yes, Takumi prevented her from developing as a person. But still, some of the choices or comments she makes are a bit chilling. I just worry about why she chose to go after Shin and what effect that may have on him if things go sour. She is able to value Shin because he is the only person that sees Reira as more than a singer and as a person. But, emotionally she's not that mature at all. The people around her seem to be the bearers of her baggage. I'm beginning to think maybe that's why Yasu may have grown weary of her. Part of him does love her but he can't bear everyone's worries all the time, it's all one-way traffic with them. Some of her comments on the relationships of other people are also a little worrying. There is something cute about the Reira-Shin thing but then you have to remember Reira is an adult and Shin isn't.

The two characters that stuck out most in this volume for me were Yasu and Nana. Yeah, my respect for Yasu jumped back up after this volume. Right when personalities and ideals were ready to clash, he pulled everyone together, shielded them from the press, got their emotions in check. He's really quite a decent guy. My one worry is that while he bears the burden of so many people, no one is able to bear his. He's now given up on his legal career and put all his hopes and chances in life on this. However, he has found something that defies reason and gives him hope. Certainly Yasu is one that is driven by rationale. Yet when it comes to Nana, she gives him ambition and hope. In the way that Ren decided to be part of the platform for Reira, Yasu wishes to be part of the platform for Nana. However, Yasu didn't stomp on hearts on crush his own ideals to achieve this end while Ren did. Yasu really is one of only two decent guys in the series, Naoki being the other one. Hmm, both drummers and decent people.

Nana - certainly if a person began to buckle under the bombshell she was given, one could be forgiven. Yet she doesn't. It gives her the drive and passion to want to succeed and be her own person. If Nana needed a spark to excel and no longer be daunted by the shadow of Trapnest or consider herself inferior to Reira, this was it. Plus her resolve to be able to not be dependent on Ren is also inspiring. Then you get touching moments with her inward talk on how she really likes Yasu for making her grow more as a person and feel alive compared to the stangnant feeling she got whenever she was with Ren, or most of all, Nana's message to Hachi that she will succeed and to shine for Hachi. It's good to see Nana in a more positive state of mind. However, there is one problem with her approach. Now that she's hellbent on beating Trapnest, her focus have shifted away from Hachi. She may want Hachi back, but she isn't even trying to interact with her. She did try at the start of the volume, but once the media frenzy began, it turned things personal and took all her focus. And it sounds very much like a tone of regret. Still, she isn't the only one guilty of this. Everyone is in the end.

No one more than Takumi. The guy isn't all bad. As Mari says, perhaps his talent could've gone to evil but someone made him put it into music instead, so he can't be all bad. Which is true. But he's still a jerk. Changing Hachi's name, shielding her room from all other people, telling her to forget Nana, being so insensitive with the gifts from London, the way he speaks to Reira. But most of all, that bit near the volume after he got back from London. About how Hachi will always come second to music, that music will take up 90% of his life and time. Then to rub it in even more, he then says Hachi will play second fiddle to something in the rest. So he really does value Reira more than Hachi. Considering how he treats Reira, one wonders what he could end up doing to Hachi. -_- Still, he does respect Hachi's needs and wants to give her a decent life and is respectful to Hachi's family. That may be true and realisitc, but there's just such a fakeness to it. Compromiisation of a person to that point seems quite cruel. They may be the most 'stable' couple in the series. But really, if the absence of sincerity, decency, actual love, valuing a person is the price for a 'stable' relationship then I'd rather not get involved with anyone personally. Still, Hachi is getting her payback for being so reckless with herself.

Hachi - she really is lost in this one. At least she was able to patch things with Shin. Life certainly isn't the way she expected it to. Also, her crying session with Jun seemed out of place with the rest of the volume. Her resolve to stay strong for her baby is touching but aside from that, she's a quivering mess and letting Takumi play her 110%. She really has little impact in this volume. Then again, that's the whole point.

In this volume, Nobu is so soft it's freaky. Heck, even Shin has way more backbone. So life isn't ideal and it sucks sometimes. Get over it. It's not like he's experienced any real horrors in his life. He's so close to being emo it's sickening. However, the lack of focus on him and his antics were welcome.

Overall, a good volume. Nana's message to Hachi, Yasu being the responsible person and holding people together, Nana getting her spark back and Takumi's harsh words of reality to Hachi were the highlights of the volume. It would have been great if it wasn't for the Hachi-Jun crying spree. Looking forward to the singles war between Blast and Trapnest, as well as how Nana and Hachi cope with what comes.

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PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2008 5:55 pm
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angel (#111641)
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 I justed finished reading volume 9 of Nana.

Quote:
This volume had the most drama to date. I can't belive Nana K is leaving to live with Takumi**well I guess she would eventually** but still. I feel so sorry for Nana O**with forgetfullness and they way she had been dealing with the unfolding of the baby and etc.

Also it was nice to see the past of Yasu, Ren and the rest of trapnest. It's like a bunch of stuff are changed, I know things won't be the same again.

oh and Nobu...poor Nobu, I feel so sorry for him I knew Nana K would at fault if they were to break up.**I can't beleive her** I thought he was going to kill himself or something along that line.

I can't wait fot the next volumes but in a way I really don't want see what happens next**I have a bad feeling about the events that are goign to happen.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 10:24 pm
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Last Exile (#35342)
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 Some really bad news...Ai Yazawa isn't well at all. ><

The August issue of Shueisha's Cookie magazine has announced on Friday that manga creator Ai Yazawa is putting her NANA series on hold due to a sudden illness. As a result, this issue did not run its scheduled installment of NANA. Since Yazawa will need several months of treatment and rest, NANA will also not appear in the September issue (which will ship on July 25) or later issues until further notice.

Cookie's editorial department offered its apologies to NANA's readers, and added that NANA's return has not been scheduled yet. Once the editors can confirm Yazawa's recovery, they will notify their readers of the manga's return through the magazine itself, the magazine's homepage, the official NANA website, and other means.

Viz Media will publish the 17th of NANA's 21 current volumes in North America next month, and it is also releasing both the television anime adaptation and the two live-action film adaptations. Yazawa was scheduled to appear at the Japan Expo convention in France next week, but Japan Expo announced on June 12 that she had to cancel due to health problems. NANA was on hiatus from June to November of 2007 while Yazawa recuperated from another illness and the resulting operation.

Source: Tomo Kimura (NANA's English translator) via MangaBlog
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2009 6:43 am
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angel (#111641)
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 Aww...I hope she gets better. I heard about the first time she got ill. I pray that she will recover.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 7:03 am
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Rosepetals (#42525)
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 I definitely hope she gets better soon. I had heard about it a while back, but I wasn't sure how bad it was Sad
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 10:23 pm
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Last Exile (#35342)
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 Well...in the 18th volume, the reason for Yazawa's illness may have emerged.

In the little bit at the end of the volume where she says a bit about her own life...this time she admitted that she was once a heavy smoker....and at the time that the 18th volume was published in Japan, she finally gave it up.

*sigh* Now I see why so many of her characters smoke. And I also see why she has been ill a lot over the last couple of years. Beginning to wonder whether it's cancer or emphysema or something along those lines...

I really feel for the woman. But this one was something she inflicted on herself...How could she be so stupid?! *lament*
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2009 2:52 am
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